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Re: Odoo 11 Enterprise price 5x increased - we should be realistic about free marketby
What is Flectra?
Flectra is a fork of Odoo based on Odoo v11 with the goal of creating more technically and functionally strong product.
Why did you fork Odoo?
We have been following Odoo since quite long time. During the time we found many technical shortcomings in current Odoo structure which should be taken care to achieve a technically and functionally strong product.
- Track all third party software included in your distribution and the license type, and keep it up to date. Consider each addition carefully, examining the risks and the benefits.
Why Fork when there is Odoo Community Backport (OBC) by Odoo Community Association ( OCA )?
OCA is doing great work by bringing all great brains and ideas together and providing them with a platform. The real problem is end customers and integrators with a limited resources who does not have money to spend on development, bug fixes and going to various developers for doing most out of box features.
People do contribute in OCA, but they do not continue. We do not blame them for that. It is the financial aspect wherein things go out of hands. After inception Odoo's app store and paid apps, developers started "price tagging" their efforts instead of giving out under OCA umbrella. Don't believe us, see the numbers.
People do contribute in OCA, but they do not continue.
There are many good projects under OCA umbrella; then there are projects which are no longer migrated to next version or just in abandoned state after couple of releases.Creating series of frustration and anger for end integrators and customers who had relied on it as a part of their solution. Which now became a bottleneck for them in moving forward.
We are following a straight forward approach and professional process to fit our and your need which differs from current OCA process.
Can I contribute in Flectra development?
Yes, once we make our first release, we will open our code for everyone to participate and build things on top of Flectra.
The larger the codebase, the larger the potential for problems. Risks include (1) contributors without a signed Contributor License Agreement (CLA), (2) contributors without permission from their employer to make a contribution; and (3) contributors who introduce code they’ve taken from elsewhere.
How it will be different than Odoo ?
Hence our idea is to create a strong product which is advance technically and functionally; there will be many enhancements at core level among with a number of new functional features at the base system level.
They already apologized and were communicating with Odoo themselves as you can ready too. Their goal is not at all to harm Odoo, they much more like to get a full featured OdooCE which they had to rename to Flectra as Odoo is a brand name of Odoo S.A.
What will be migration policy? Just like Odoo, Paid migrations for Enterprise Customers?
One thing as a feature that we are confirming at the moment is INCLUDED FREE MIGRATION for all core modules. All the core modules will be self-migrating to the new version when there is a new version release.
- Consider the effort and expense of replacing the software should you encounter any issues. Can it be swapped out easily, or is it intimately entangled with your application?
What is the license for Flectra?
We will license Flectra based on LGPLv3, and we will accept all contributions in LGPLv3 or similar commercially permissive license.
- Consider the use of any GPL work in a closed source application very carefully. If your application can be considered and extension of the GPL work, you may be required to disclose your source. Seek counsel if your rights are in doubt.
Will my Odoo modules work with Flectra ?
We are going to make a number of structural, technical changes along with namespace related changes which will make existing Odoo modules unusable without making minor to moderate changes to it. You may still be able to use around 80% of your existing code.
Will Flectra be available over SaaS?
SaaS-based offering is on our roadmap, and we will enable it gradually as we proceed, Our current priority is to build a solution which can be used On Cloud / On-Premise with ease.
Where it is based ?
Flectra is currently based out of Singapore, we are soon going to start operations in Europe, USA, UK, Middle East and North Asia.
Nhomar HernandezCEO Vauxoo.Site: http://vauxoo.comTwitter: @nhomarBlog: http://nhomar.comGithub User: https://github.com/nhomarOdoo Gold PartnerSkype: nhomar00 (Envia mail previo no lo superviso siempre).HangOut: email@example.comMóvil Venezuela:
+58 4144110269 (Telegram)Móvil México:
+52 1 4773933942 (Whatsapp)On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 8:05 PM, Juan Plaza <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
In my vision the point is that Odoo S.A. is not transparent in this time, and started to cut Odoo CE without notice, it will be very different if we know what they going to do, but it's always a surprise, in the past was a surprise what´s they going to make better, now the expectation is what they going to cut from CE in the next version.
I think thats Flectra work is a good starting point to make something different, also I agree that Flectra can´t in any case copy or obfuscate the Odoo Entreprise code, they should be very strict with this if they want to be success in this new fork.
From time to time we see Open Source project that grow and get successful and then they turn their backs to the community, and that's the route I see that Odoo has taken. It´s Okay, it's their business, but what I can not understand is that, a part of the community, is so aggressive with a new fork, and I do not mean that the copy of enterprise code is acceptable, but the aggression started before we knew this.I think you do not get the point my dear collegue.mention another product here is not Ok! if you try to:1.- Make look bad to Odoo itself, even if it is not perfect, we know that, it is just improving.2.- The discussion started with the point of the price, then the discussion move to the forks (because it is cheaper?).3.- Then the discussion move to defend ourselves (yes they are hijacking not just Odoo SA, but OCA itself with stupid arguments, relicensing things).Then that fork is not a fork is a simple joke that most be avoided to be used as a disinformation strategy to the end customer or the new commers...On my honest PoV Fork whatever you want but not Hijacking this mailing list neither the licence with disinformation and false statements promoting the forks "I take what I want because I can".!That's why the community is stronger together.Regards!
I hope that Flectra can fix they mistakes and started I new good product for the community.
Juan Plaza2017-10-17 21:05 GMT-03:00 Oleg Kuryan <email@example.com>:@Nhomar, was silently reading your comments, but after you mentioned Tesla, cannot keep silent as I'm fan of Elon Musk =)@All, Obviously Odoo S.A. as company have issues. BTW, typical growth problems - no surprises here.And those who are for along time with OpenERP / Odoo we all aware of this. Do not be misleaded with aggressive comments.Most of Odoo Implementators here are overloaded with Odoo Projects and cannot respond to such long threads with their opinion =) Maybe just at the end of the day.Few examples of issues:1. Communication (with community, partners, customers) is definitely need to be improved. Good example is this mail thread.I even have theory that is reason is why Brussels is the capital of EU - they are politicians in their blood.But hey! Fabien now moved to US - they have different culture, and things are becoming better.Solution: That is not big problem as long as you know this and as long as Odoo strategy is not conflicting with your company strategy.At least my observations showed that their strategy is clear to me and not changing. For me important points in their strategy that not changingfor 3 years already: they will always focus on Product, not vertical solution + they will never go with native mobile apps. That is it. For me that means that we will not be competing, but helping each other.About Enterprise pricing - that is good point. Important that it was brought. Odoo as company still experimenting with business model.And I'm sure Fabien will think about it after such a big thread and make sure it is better stated in the contract. Remember that Enterprise contract sponsors development of the product.So we are all in same boat here and Fabien already provided his opinion (+~8% per year max for existing customers).2. Marketing - that comes from point 1. Odoo is advertised as ready to use product.But it is partial truth. Ready to use product should be very specific (talking about verticalization), but what Odoo is - it is a LEGO.You should build blocks properly first, before usage.Solution: After we formulated that for ourselves (about LEGO) and our customers, no hard discussions with customers anymore.Also movement to telling the truth about Odoo that I saw recently from Fabien I appreciate and this is good sign for me (for example, renaming Accounting to Invoicing in Odoo Community).That is REALLY invoicing - nothing more. Ask any accountant working with Odoo.Even Odoo Enterprise 10 users (real accountants) are "crying" now using it as accounting system. No jokes here - that is real feedback.Too much training needed.Let's not go deep into discussions about "hiding" features, that is not my point.3. Quality of Odoo Apps. It is really big problem. Quality is far below zero.Seems they were created to earn quick money and not thinking about future reputation. And not thinking about customer.And here I'm talking not only about quality of Odoo Apps, but about maturity of Odoo Implementators.Explanation is clear here - Odoo is young framework and company. They need bigger community and more partners.That is not a secret, Fabien mentioned this on one of previous Odoo Experience. Also he mentioned that after there will be enough weight,they will start struggling for quality among partners.And actually he started to do this, by Educating:1) Finally documentation and education center. Hope Odoo will not stop on this. But it is huge improvement. Much better than was in 6.1 =)2) Odoo.sh - FINALLY, good idea, not sure will this idea be leaving for a long - as that is serious infrastructure investment, but that is exactly what was on my mind this year - professional way of doing projects. Important factor many companies forget.There were no best practices. And Fabien did this. Good thinking.Solution: So for myself I know only TWO publishers on Odoo Apps of paid modules who I can recommend to my customers and also OCA is organizationthat has quality content. Also I know partners I trust and I can recommend as consultants on particular topics. I always tell that to my customers explaining the reality. And all are fine with this truth.As you can can see - that are all points that worried myself. But the reality now is1) that Odoo is the best Framework for all-in-one system implementations (I do not like this ERP word that became pure marketing).There is no others I see can be used.2) Another reality is that Odoo is product company and it is already not spending investments, but earning money - so I can trust that they will not collapse.BTW, even if they collapse - I and my customers have all code.As my company is for a long time with Odoo as main framework, I can say that there were time when decision of Fabien raised questions in my head, but the thing is - you have option to go with Odoo Framework or not to go. Nobody forces to use it - that is reality of FREE community.3) ERP market is questionable to invest in the long term, but I believe that future is for lightweight specialized all-in-one systems (not SAP or Oracle) and Odoo provides quick way to create such systems. So again - think about Odoo not as of solution, but as about TOOL that you can use with minimal investments. Want to create fork? Go and create it. Some partners I know did that and succeeded with their specialized solution. Want to use latest features only? Rely on publisher and have latest version! Again choice is yours. Want to have Enterprise feature? Pay for Enterprise, but be ready that as soon as product develops - price will change. That is obvious.If you are end customer and you describe to me your business - I will be able to tell you: to go or not to go with Odoo, if to go than when , what will be cost, do you need Community or Enterprise.And this investigation can be done in really days, even not weeks and specifically for you! Sometimes even Proof of Concepts for Customer Business can be provided on second meeting. Impossible with others ERP systems. And that is reality that was created by Odoo - with all its proc's and cons'sSo let's look at reality. Odoo is not ideal, but I assume that members of this community are all here to discuss ways to improve product, improve Odoo as a company, to share how to use it and share knowledge with others. Crticism is also good, it helps to improve. But we are not here to promote some other products. POINT.+1 NhomarAMENI personally feel comfortable with such fact (even if I must accept the world should do better on this).Hosting,Nobody want pay 1 dollar more than an amazon server even if you put a rocket launcher system on it.Service,By hour impossible to achieve and pay a R&D of Millions.Adjustments,People think you must pay them and not the other way around when you develop a module for them, even in some cases it is impossible to be profitable here for several Human Reasons.customer special modules,Same as abovesupport,Same as abovehand on service,Same as aboveEducation,Everybody wants to pay 1 dollar training.El mar., 17 oct. 2017 a las 17:44, Gonzalo Ruzafa (<firstname.lastname@example.org>) escribió:+1 NhomarAMENI personally feel comfortable with such fact (even if I must accept the world should do better on this).Hosting,Nobody want pay 1 dollar more than an amazon server even if you put a rocket launcher system on it.Service,By hour impossible to achieve and pay a R&D of Millions.Adjustments,People think you must pay them and not the other way around when you develop a module for them, even in some cases it is impossible to be profitable here for several Human Reasons.customer special modules,Same as abovesupport,Same as abovehand on service,Same as aboveEducation,Everybody wants to pay 1 dollar training.Nhomar HernandezCEO Vauxoo.Site: http://vauxoo.comTwitter: @nhomarBlog: http://nhomar.comGithub User: https://github.com/nhomarOdoo Gold PartnerSkype: nhomar00 (Envia mail previo no lo superviso siempre).HangOut: email@example.comMóvil Venezuela:
+58 4144110269 (Telegram)Móvil México:
+52 1 4773933942 (Whatsapp)Nice, now the discussion can become more affordable and can arrive to a better understanding.> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Martin < firstname.lastname@example.org  > wrote: Nhomar Hernández < email@example.com  > writes: >>> Do not support leeches!!! >> What exactly are leeches? > No, people that split and shit the market with bad marketing to make themselve as the "saviors". Ok, so you are trying to say, that leeches are people who make their own fork and sell that for some money? Then I aggree. I don't think, that we need that 'sent by using odoo' or 'built using odoo' messags on the websites or emails, even on wordpress you can deactivate that. And that's ok for me, like you don't see postgres or python when you just buy a cloud instance of odoo.Yea, maybe, but disable it dont need a fork, there are tons of modules that do that and even one maintained by OCA itself, sometimes for branding purposes it is a problem in some customers, but not fork necessary for that.odoo should get money for what they do, but with open source you can earn so much, so there is no need to sell the software itself.Matter of PoV, I think if you do not charge the work you do it is impossible to be profitable, (the time show us that pure services become Odoo, SA non-proifitable making both works Editor and Implementer.Remember the energy and the time are the unique things you can't destroy.Then the editor charge for the valuable code (good or not that's another story) and the implementer for the services they deliver and custom devs as services.That way everybody earns their money for their value.We can't put 0 as the cost of something just because it did not come from my pocket (that's a basic economical principle).I personally feel comfortable with such fact (even if I must accept the world should do better on this).Hosting,Nobody want pay 1 dollar more than an amazon server even if you put a rocket launcher system on it.Service,By hour impossible to achieve and pay a R&D of Millions.Adjustments,People think you must pay them and not the other way around when you develop a module for them, even in some cases it is impossible to be profitable here for several Human Reasons.customer special modules,Same as abovesupport,Same as abovehand on service,Same as aboveEducation,Everybody wants to pay 1 dollar training.THE UNIQUE WAY those models works by themselves is IF you ARE NOT the editor, and that's part of how Odoo ecosystem works, all those elements are paid from the customer to the Implementer, and then a little part (frequently no more than 10%) goes to the editor (Licences), for me it is a fear deal (Even if YES it can be improved).and so on should make enaugh money for the odoo company.Sadly you wasn't here before but it was not the case, people with a bunch of more money cam e an try to fuck us before, Money deliver power and power in our environments must be given to the one you trust, then YES I trust on Odoo if you don't it is sad (and I know there are things that must be improved) but everybody decide how to make their own money.At the end the unique way to achive have an ODOO IN EVERY COMPANY, is putting price really DOWN, and for that a clear long term vision, and a high volume is necessary (See tesla case), Imagine Tesla started with the Cheap model first with no vision? impossible to achieve, and their cars are not patented BTW.There is no real need to hold back some modules (like the Helpdesk App which could be used a lot)we can walk one by one on this regard, and may be I can agree on some of them and not in others, but this is another discussion, the helpdesk specific case is one I must agree with you.in an enterprice version. Doing that looks greedy to me.Do not evaluate a hole situation for only 1 case.... but again, greedy is block all, and try to look other options very well supported opensource enterprise systems and you will see, it is better Bad but Transparent, than "Looks Open" but they are lying on behalf.80% of the current work is opensourced for me it is unfair call that "greedy"Martin -- Thanks for your help!
Technical Director, XPANSA Group | ERP, BI, E-commerce, Data Mining and DMS consulting