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Re: Tax Retencion / Tax Withholding :: Common approach

by
David Arnold
- 10/22/2014 07:54:42

Hi Christian Salema,
Hi Luis Felipe,
thanks for your feedback!

Christian,
Could you give a screenshot of the invoice document you produce... Im interested in the way you hack the compute all, as I think this is a prerequisite to have an invoice like the mockup I did. I even think such a hack should be a core addon, thats actually the intention of my initative. But in order to make this happen, we must analyse further. So as initially said, Id like to keep things visual, as this really helps with communicating concepts. Thats why I ask you for a screenshot. We should probably save the code for a later stage...

I think withrdrawing in Ecuador is pretty much the same as in all other SA countries, so I see potential for a common approach. Have you checked the Mockup?

What do you practically mean by "create a new document"? (Maybe Screenshot?)

Luis Felipe,
Thanks fkr the visuals! I think Brasil is the most complex country arround, but actually whats happening is again structurally very similar to other SA (AR, PE, EC, CO, VE, MX, ...) countries.

The mock up suggests to include what you have on the invoice tab retentions into a second coloumn directly into the invoice  and realyze the concept via the odoo built in tax concept. Could we analyze, if this would also be also conceptually possible in brazil in the future? (@raphael/akretion?)

I want again, as in the case of Argentina, challange the news, that you apply the retention based on a MONTHLY floor value. There is much confusion about this in colombia. EVEN THE TAX AUTHORITY is confused, but a court ruled, that this is "NO EXIGIBLE". If you think about thouroughly, this would mean payment terms with less than one month (including cash payments) would be legally impossible, if I do not miss some important details. Could you make a practical example how this is done? - maybe authorities/laws are inconsistent...

Last, but not least: what you have as floor values, in other countries is commonly expressed in terms of Unidad de Valor Tributario (as was mentioned before in the discussion).

In colombia these floor values apply on a single (!) invoice total - actually its trickier but for the sake of this discussion I simplified - , as everything else would illigalize completely cash payments. (!)
This is why I think we should analyze this monthly time frame requirement with utmost scrutiny, because I suspect some tricky details with it.

Thanks for this great discussion! I think it would be greate to have an accountant backed OK/NOK (I might challange NOKs for the sake of a common approach ;-) from each country on the mock up, and then procede with the analysis of the different fiscal attributes per model, in order to see what is possible and in which countries...

MX?
VE?
PE?
EC?
AR?
BR?
???

Best
David



On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Nhomar Hernández <nhomar@gmail.com> wrote:

2014-10-18 18:09 GMT-04:30 Juan José Scarafía (ADHOC) <scarafia.juanjose@gmail.com>:
* Retentions / withholdings: we refer to amounts been retained on PAYMENTS. It depends in receiver, issuer and sum of amount that has been paid on month or similar. 
* Perceptions: amounts being "retained" on INVOICE (depends on receiver, issuer and invoice amounts)

Just to compliment:

In México withholding is "On the tax".
In Venezuela withholding is "On the tax" but on "Invoice time"
In Colombia is like Venzuela AFAICK.
In Brazil other apply.

IMHO, withholding must to be:

- Configured on "Tax Level".
- Have into account the variable David mentioned (Partners (You and customer - You and supplier, Products and Document(s) [Payment, receipt and Invoices])
- Computed as a tax on Account Move Line.
- It need to be recorded ad a "Document" not as a "Tax".
- frquently as Argentina (in Venezuela it happen too!) your Withholding is different even in different cities on th country and the amounts are taken from a no-monetary currency called "Fiscal Unit" (Unidad Tributaria).

In our experience even the computing the withholding itself it really complex (for some of them) and so trivials in other documents, we tried without success build an unique model for Colombia and Venezuela and the "IF's" where too much than we decided do 2 development.

IMO in Odoo is so simple, in Ecuador we have many withdrawing cases so taxes engine works really good, with a simple hint: negative percent in tax, this solve all problems with accounting and tax reports.

The complex side for us is get totals in invoice document, we hack _compute_all method and all works. obviously we create a new document to control all around.


Regards,



--
--------------------
Saludos Cordiales
 
--
Nhomar Hernandez
 

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Cristian Salamea on about.me
 
Cristian Salamea
 

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