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Re: Accounting Roadmap V9

by
Fabien Pinckaers (fp)
- 10/10/2014 11:24:42
> The idea is clear to transform the accounting of Odoo in something
> usable for small companies only. The direction is "take all the complex
> functionality and throw it away".

I repeat myself: this is absolutely not our intention.

We want to keep complex/advanced feature but make them simple to use
(without reducing the feature).

I named Xero as an example of usability to follow. We don't plan to do a
copy of Xero. We have a lot of things to learn from them.

And, please excuse if the document is not complete; this is just the
first iteration; very draft.

Fabien



> 
> 
> On 10 Oct 2014, at 05:16, Fabien Pinckaers <fp@openerp.com
> <mailto:fp@openerp.com>> wrote:
> 
>>
>> > I know xero.  It is designed for companies without accountants, who
>> have a 3rd party accountant approve their accounts once per year plus
>> do tax returns.  It is awesome for that.  In fact I agree, that in
>> terms of usability in many parts it is the standard.
>>
>> To be clear. Our goal is not to make a clone of Xero. We actually
>> analyzed a lot of different software.
>>
>> I named Xero because:
>>
>> 1/ Xero is a good example because they are good where we are weak. So,
>> that's an area where we have things to learn.
>> 2/ I want to force the team/the community to think out of the Odoo
>> mind. To get great specifications, we should not only think in terms
>> of "what can we improve in Odoo?"
>>
>> But, of course, there are plenty of area where Odoo is or can be better.
>>
>> > I have started work on one of the best features for OpenERP which is
>> how it does sales tax returns.  But once you have more than 50
>> accounts and live in a fiscal world requiring more than basic
>> professional services accounting and small business returns it is a
>> pain to work in.  Let me be clear, many of the objectives here I agree
>> with, it was late, and I was in a total state of shock.  But a small
>> few are IMHO totally unworkable for anybody with more than a few users.
>>
>> Can you be more explicit? What's wrong in proposed specs in the Google
>> doc?
>>
>> > As an experienced user in both systems I feel there are parts of
>> each which are good, parts which are poor.
>> > In Xero there are parts which are truly outstanding.  You have
>> selected some of these, but not the really amazing parts,
>>
>> Which one?
>>
>> > but also selected some of the poorer aspects.  You have also
>> selected some of the most expensive to develop aspects. There is a
>> good reason xero chooses not to use the standard banking integrations,
>> there is also a good reason it chose not to buy bank-link (I happened
>> to meet their CEO that day who gave an impromptu presentation on it).
>>
>> I was not aware of that. I don't plan to do like Xero. I plan to use
>> web services like Yodlee or plaid (if they improve their coverage
>> quickly enough)
>>
>> > I'm not saying you can't develop direct bank integration and the
>> threshold to this is lowering, but to do it at the level of Xero is a
>> custom job for each bank.  Their last trading update and presentation
>> to investors which was yesterday or the day before explicitly mentions
>> the investment they make here and celebrate adding 3 banks in the UK
>> in a 6 month update.  They have far more people working on this than
>> you ever will.  An acquaintance of mine through social circles heads
>> up the automated testing division for a company (a world leading one)
>> that does nothing but banking integrations for UK and European banks. 
>> It is not a small team and the stories he tells me are frightening
>> regarding compliance.
>>
>> I think we agree on this. There are several great web services we can
>> use instead of reinventing the wheel.
>>
>> > Just have a bunch of default view accounts automatically linked to
>> the account type, have a _defaults which updates parent_id field which
>> is hidden in view.  Use filtered list view for accounts.  Done.
>>
>> As explained in the  document, my proposition is not the remove
>> hierarchies but:
>> - to manage hierarchies at the reporting level instead of the account
>> configuration level.
>> - have reports to become the default browsing methods instead of tree
>> views
>>
>> > But removing the entire feature (if you can call core requirement a
>> feature) is the crazy part.
>>
>> As said, I plan to replace the feature not to remove it.
>>
>> Fabien
>>
>> > On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Torvald Baade Bringsvor
>>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi
>> >>
>> >> Also some improvements to multi company should be possible. For
>> example: you have a virtual chart of accounts that consists of
>> accounts from two companies. Then you try to view the balance sheet,
>> and you select fiscal year (2014). Mistake, because the fiscal year
>> belongs to one of the companies so you only get the amounts in your
>> virtual chart of accounts for that company.
>> >>
>> >> Would be a good thing to fix too.
>> >>
>> >> -Torvald
>> >>
>> >> 2014-10-09 23:11 GMT+02:00 Fabien Pinckaers <fp@openerp.com
>> <mailto:fp@openerp.com>>:
>> >>>
>> >>> Guys,
>> >>>
>> >>> You may have misunderstood the "remove hierarchy" technical spec.
>> >>> I completed the "Reporting" section to make it more clear on our goal
>> >>> to improve the 'structured' CoA.
>> >>>
>> >>> Fabien
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 10:35 PM, Fabien Pinckaers <fp@openerp.com
>> <mailto:fp@openerp.com>> wrote:
>> >>> > Hello,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > A few notes:
>> >>> >   - the accounting spec is in draft. A lot of things will probably
>> >>> > change after the meeting of next week.
>> >>> >   - we did it quite quickly so it's not complete enough: a lot will
>> >>> > evolve over the next weeks
>> >>> >   - My feeling is that it's only 20% of the spec. (especially,
>> all the
>> >>> > usability stuff have not been analysed yet. More will come later.)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I changed the access rights on the document so that anyone can add
>> >>> > comments and/or ideas:
>> >>> >  
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MahXh0TdfjI0ohdTSz_c8cML7HqxvcAtvSAY63N20Tc/edit?usp=sharing
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Please only add constructive comments to keep the document readable:
>> >>> >   - try to argue with links or examples
>> >>> >   - avoid subjective arguments (no +1, ...)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Thanks,
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Ben Olsen <ben.olsen@imsar.com
>> <mailto:ben.olsen@imsar.com>> wrote:
>> >>> >> I must agree with Lek. Many of the new and redesigned features
>> sound great,
>> >>> >> but losing account hierarchy would cause serious issues. In our
>> company we
>> >>> >> must maintain a very complicated and detailed Chard of
>> Accounts, because we
>> >>> >> face scrutiny from government auditors. We need the account
>> hierarchy to
>> >>> >> keep everything organized, and trying to throw our 500+
>> accounts into one
>> >>> >> giant list would be a disaster. Additionally, we rely on the
>> View types to
>> >>> >> sum up all totals from child accounts, giving us quick overviews of
>> >>> >> different sub-sections of the Chart of Accounts.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> I looked over xero.com  and can see why Odoo
>> would want to aim for that kind
>> >>> >> of user-friendly interface. However, in terms of functionality,
>> Odoo needs
>> >>> >> to remain a full-featured ERP and allow for much more
>> complicated settings,
>> >>> >> especially with Accounting.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Perhaps v9 could offer a simplified accounting system for small
>> businesses,
>> >>> >> but allow the more complicated features, like account
>> hierarchies, to be
>> >>> >> enabled if desired?
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Thanks,
>> >>> >> Ben Olsen
>> >>> >> IMSAR LLC
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Wipawii
>>  wrote:
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Greeting from Thailand,
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Agree with Lionel. Budget is important for an organisation. It
>> is to
>> >>> >>> control how your business should go. It is a plan of finance.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> +1 for Reconciliation, reduce complication of Tax setting,
>> very good for
>> >>> >>> restart sequence for new FY, tax is workable on Expense, More
>> flexible on
>> >>> >>> Reporting with pdf and excel are optional and last one menu
>> items is NICE!
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> However, removing account hierarchy  is incomprehensible. Account
>> >>> >>> hierarchy is sort of like basic of accounting in part of
>> presentation for
>> >>> >>> management assertion, unless Odoo will have other friendly
>> feature to
>> >>> >>> support CFO to create their own financial report template
>> freely. Hopefully,
>> >>> >>> new account type and reporting in this roadmap will help.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Lek
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> www.ecosoft.co.th 
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Sent from my Android
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> On Oct 9, 2014 9:58 PM, "Lionel Sausin" <ls@numerigraphe.com
>> <mailto:ls@numerigraphe.com>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> I find the beginning of the document very worrying :
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> "(...) Not a priority:
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> Budget
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> Analytic"
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> I'm worried because our company is into manufacturing, and
>> our accounting
>> >>> >>>> is so simple that we didn't even bother making it in Odoo -
>> EBP compta does
>> >>> >>>> the job for ~200€.
>> >>> >>>> BUT analytics and budgets are major features for us, the only
>> ones we'll
>> >>> >>>> really use in Odoo's accounting.
>> >>> >>>> So please, by all means do improve whatever you want on
>> accounting, but
>> >>> >>>> do NOT remove any more existing features.
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> Lionel Sausin
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> Le 09/10/2014 15:51, Graeme Gellatly a écrit :
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>
>> cite="mid:CAFmBtG3XKF9qrNGhmRqVF1ZLW+PibYcZpRMNeMm5cvBy1SDMGg@mail.gmail.com
>> <mailto:mid%3ACAFmBtG3XKF9qrNGhmRqVF1ZLW%2BPibYcZpRMNeMm5cvBy1SDMGg@mail.gmail.com>"
>> >>>> >>>> type="cite">
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>> Omg. You are taking your model from a 1-10 user accounting
>> system with no
>> >>>> >>>> concept of stock, no concept of anglosaxon, not even a
>> concept of a sales
>> >>>> >>>> order really and literally quoting their CEO verbatim while
>> inserting
>> >>>> >>>> screenshots of their product.
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>> Dont get me wrong, i like xero, i use xero, i have written
>> integrations
>> >>>> >>>> between xero and openerp, in fact i own shares in xero, but
>> this is either
>> >>>> >>>> crazy or odoo is abandoning anybody subject to anything but
>> a small business
>> >>>> >>>> reporting standard.
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>> I feel sorry for partners. I think you just got screwed but
>> at least the
>> >>>> >>>> direction is clear early.
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> >>>> Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59
>> >>>> >>>> Post to: mailto:community@mail.odoo.com
>> <mailto:community@mail.odoo.com>
>> >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> >>> Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59
>> >>>> >>> Post to: mailto:community@mail.odoo.com
>> <mailto:community@mail.odoo.com>
>> >>>> >>> Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> >> Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59
>> >>>> >> Post to: mailto:community@mail.odoo.com
>> <mailto:community@mail.odoo.com>
>> >>>> >> Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> <mailto:community@mail.odoo.com>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Torvald Baade Bringsvor
>> >> Bringsvor Consulting AS - Odoo (formerly OpenERP) implementation
>> partner
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> Post to: mailto:community@mail.odoo.com
>> <mailto:community@mail.odoo.com>
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>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
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> 
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-- 
Fabien Pinckaers
Odoo Founder

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