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Re: Legal retention requirements for accounting data (was Re: Mexican localization)

by
Ferdinand Gassauer
- 10/19/2016 18:11:00
Hi all,
it's about knowing how to deal with certain situations, one of them is "end of life" of a company (also mergers), and everyone responsible should know how to handle this situation.
This is nothing new and  not related to Odoo.
The proposed "download of the postgres db" is definitely only a feasible option for experts, because of the use of id's, related fields, property fields and translations, the sql-output of tables is not readable by humans (and fiscal authorities)  nor a reproduction of the "original" documents (invoices, vouchers)
so IMO the only pragmatic way to archive the data according to  fiscal requirements is to ask your tax consultant what is necessary and do something like
  • archive all invoices, stock pickings, orders, journals ... as pdf
  • archive various lists (account_move_lines,...) as csv / excel
  • relevant attachments ... (replace file name with meaningful names...)
  • ....

on a yearly basis.

That's what  fiscal authorities typically will ask for.

All this can be done using existing features of Odoo.


On 2016-10-20 02:33, Caudal Eric wrote:
Let's be frankly controversial here: why Odoo should be responsible to give for free 10 years of subscriptions because legislation in Germany (Thailand or Ouagadougou) says so?

The user (of a company) is responsible to chose a system and the corresponding backup / conservation that suits his business or industry. Trying to make Odoo morally and financially responsible for every company's fate in the world is absurd and unprecedented... It is like trying to sue Smith & Wesson in a murder case.

Besides the proposed solution (keep one subscription = 192 USD/year) looks perfectly reasonable and cheap 
(Well I already see those people saying that Odoo will be forced to stay in business at least 10 years to fulfill the obligation and avoid penal charges due the fiscal laws of Laos...)

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 11:57 PM Karsten Eberding <karsten@eberding.eu> wrote:

Hello,

it's worthwhile to look at the detailed regulations, here is an example from Germany:
http://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/DE/Downloads/BMF_Schreiben/Weitere_Steuerthemen/Abgabenordnung/Datenzugriff_GDPdU/2014-11-14-GoBD.html

Rough translation of chapter 9.4 "Moving dataside out of the productive system, change of system"

In case of a system change (switch of system, migration), or when moving data with retention requirements outside of the productive system, the hardware and software of the original productive system cannot be switched off unless the following requirements are met for the remaining retention time:

1) Data with legal obligation for retention (including meta data, master data, movement data and associated links) must be moved in full and with the same quality into a new system, database or archive system that complies in full with regulations. If data conversion is required, it must be limited to the data format (e.g. date or currency format), no content change is allowed. All conversion changes must be documented ...
2) The new system or archiving system must allow an equivalent level and quality of analysis and evaluation of the data under retention as the original system

Otherwise, the original hard- and software of the productive system has to be kept together with all data until the retention period expires.


In other words, keeping a 1-user DB in Odoo online would cover the requirements. A download of the Postgres DB or a conversion into Excel would not, as it would not provide equivalent analysis, and change of data cannot be restricted as required.

Other countries may be different, but the overall requirements are usually similar.

A possible solution would be to allow for read-only access for at least one user, once an Enterprise license expires.

thanks

--
Karsten Eberding
karsten@eberding.eu



<img photoaddress="fp@odoo.com" photoname="Fabien Pinckaers" src="/web/image/2915749" name="compose-unknown-contact.jpg" height="25px" width="25px">
19 October 2016 at 15:57

But companies are legally required to keep their records for periods that can vary from 5 to 10 years, sometimes more. 

The above makes it ERP SaaS not a viable option for most businesses.

That's what you say but it's not our feedback from the market. (in terms of customers feedback & sales figures)
 
Whether you use Odoo Enterprise or Odoo Online, you always have access to your data through PostgreSQL. It's not an issue. I don't think we have lost a single customer based on that assumption (we have 4000+ customers). It's a common practice in the industry: if you don't pay for your software, you can not use it anymore. (but you still own your own data through an open format: PostgreSQL)

With Odoo Online, you can download your DB at any time and access with PSQL, on Odoo Enterprise or keep a 1-user DB and desactivate all others user to access through the enterprise UI if you prefer.


The whole eco-system / business model of Odoo relies on extra features in Odoo Enterprise that are not in Odoo Community. And this model allows us to finance both the evolution of Enterprise and Community editions. So, it's a good thing.

Having a path to keep using the Enterprise features without having to pay for it (e.g. putting these features in Odoo Community, directly or through third party apps) is a non sense and would kill the sustainability of Odoo (as a company and product) in the long term. It's a good thing to have features in Odoo Enterprise that are not in Odoo Community.



-- 
Fabien

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<img photoaddress="mchambreuil@ursainfosystems.com" photoname="Maxime Chambreuil" src="/web/image/2915750" name="postbox-contact.jpg" height="25px" width="25px">
18 October 2016 at 17:17
Dear Mexican integrators,

I will be presenting the Odoo accounting features next week in Querétaro:

I am sure questions will come up about the electronic invoicing, so I would like to know:
  • who have a mexican localization
  • which version of Odoo does it support
  • which PAC does it work with
Thank you very much.

Ursa Information Systems Maxime Chambreuil
Project Manager / Consultant

Ursa Information Systems
1450 W Guadalupe Road, Suite 132
Gilbert, Arizona, 85233

Office:     1-855-URSA ERP x 710
                1-855-877 2377 x 710
Mobile:   1-602-427-5632

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--

Eric  Caudal (from my mobile)

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