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Re: The ethics to answer questions

by
Odoocker
- 05/23/2016 01:18:19
Thanks for posting your questions Yuan.

If you have listened to the vidoes carefully they speak actually out what culture is needed again and why people love(d) OpenERP and why some are still using and loving Odoo.

I think you already read lots of threads, as you receive them like me via the mailinglist - I am actually not talking about the ones I have posted by the way, as here it is already symtomatic that Nhomar posts (don't worry about that as fortunately until now he reacts only when he reads my name), when we need technical answers our developers post usually themselves, as mostly I would not get an answer ;-) like others won't get answers, but discussions get stuck before they even can get started with that behaviour. 

I am not satisfied with that people on that mailinglist are asking serious questions and they won't get any answers from the people which can answer those questions because this happens!

Did the community block you to contribute anything to the community?

The question is what counts as a contribution? Anyway we will contribute further to that community and will for sure also ask more questions to get clear answers. 

There are many open questions already which have been actually asked mostly actually by others to Odoo S.A. for clarifications and still those people are waiting for answers, instead some very few but constantly the same people try to stop any effort to get to a clarifying answer.

"In the community, mutual respect and gratitude is essential."

Then start doing it! I am saying that to everybody here. Let's forget about the past and start it right now to make a change!

I am following that community quite long already and with every license change the tone got rougher and the community got more and more actually splitted working against instead of pulling on one string. Listen carefully to all those statements which are still posted on Odoo to advertise their products but actually all of them would need to revise meanwhile those videos as their statements are no more valid in major parts!

To survive with Odoo you need people being able to sit on a very hot chair and who are not afraid to ask even uncomfortable questions. But you also need people in your team which don't sit on that hot share at all, which even don't appear as belonging to you, as otherwise it will be hard to get support.

Take the discussion about Python 3 in Odoo 10, which would be still the best what could happen by the way. 

We did actually only forward an idea to the community which we got from an investor who was looking for an ERP System with Website Builder (this was the reason we got actually asked on the list) Well, instead of showing those people what a great community Odoo has, he got verified with what he heard already from competitors. By the way he would have not invested in us or our company as we provided only a service for somebody else, but our idea was, why not simply get that question into the community and see how people react, so he can see how the chance will be that people would contribute to a Python 3 Odoo 10 Version. We told them before that exactly that would happen, what happened and that it will be hard to get real answers from Odoo S.A. as many had tried it before to get answers and did not get ones and also that finding a community which would like to start developing an Odoo Community Version 10 in Python 3 will be difficult to build up and find inside the Odoo mailing list. OK fortunately he got some feedback from people who contact directly as they did not wanted to get exposed with their opinion like we were sitting on the hot chair.

Great leadership of what Fabien is talking about is something else.

On the other hand there were other options often mentioned on the list already:

1. switching to another product and improving that
2. Using Tryton and getting the rewritten website builder up and running there
3. forking Odoo - many did that already as you can see
4. rewriting Odoo from scratch in Python 3 to bring back Freedom and actually reversing what Odoo S.A did before to take the freedom more and more in the past!

How much would it cost to rewrite the Odoo Core to Python 3?
How long would it take?
Could that be finished before Odoo 11 gets released?
Could it be finished in 2016?
What would be the roadmap, the milestones people would put into such a rewrite of the Odoo Core and some major modules they liked to have i.e. Website Builder/ CRM/ Sales/ Presentation/ Marketing/ ...

and of course getting quotations from people who are capable in rewriting and of course while rewriting also cleaning up the code, and their concrete timing.
were some of the questions ...

Why rewriting? It is simply the only way to bring back freedom and actually necessary to have a cleaner and leaner code! The answer was also concerning the License, as with the current Enterprise License proprietary/non public code a real open source product can't evolve like it could! Well, they were interested in a Free Open Source Product like described by those people in the videos.

--

for them the answers on the mailing lists after we posted the idea with Python 3 was the end of discussion for them to sponsor stuff in the odoo community, they got the results presented live on the mailinglist in only a few hours right the way and how they decided - well, it is no more our problem and I spare my comments on that!

If they now rewrite or not, if they release a new competitor running with Python 3 I don't know (If I would I would not be able to comment on that) and I am actually also not really interested in that decision as I would have liked to have getting them investing in the Odoo Community Development for version 10 with Python 3 - one reason why I brought in the idea to let Version 9 running much longer than planned so that the now stable Version 9 could be the Last 2.7 Version also for those who want to migrate on a slower pace first to the new API and than with Version 10 to Python 3. Specific Package Solutions based on Odoo is only one of the products we provide to our customers here and in what we train them.

--

Let's get simply back to work. 

This thread is not answering the initial question concerning the ethic of answering simple questions on that list either as it is mainly discussing the behaviour of @Nhomar what was not the purpose of that Thread. 

By the way @Nhomar

the Spanish text we posted was copy paste from that website here: http://hombrerefranero.blogspot.com/2009/02/quien-hierro-mata-hierro-muere.html
Our Columbian Partner pointed us to that - so we can understand your behaviour a bit more.

Easy to find - simply copy paste the text into google ;-)

Simply leave it like it is! Lunch break is over!

Have a nice day and congratulations also to the Team from Shanghai which made it second here in Phuket in the ACM-ICPC World Finals which just ended last week! Great job!

Andi


On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Oliver Yuan <oliver.yuan@openstone.cn> wrote:

Hi Andi,

What do you really want to have? Can you list what you're not satisfying with? Did the community block you to contribute anything to the community? In the community, mutual respect and gratitude is essential.

Best regards,
Oliver

 
 
 
------------------ Original ------------------
From:  "Andreas Becker"<andi@lisandi.com>;
Date:  Mon, May 23, 2016 11:17 AM
To:  "Community"<community@mail.odoo.com>;
Subject:  Re: The ethics to answer questions
 
:-) Thanks Nhomar 

Quien a hierro mata, a hierro muere es una formulación de la bíblica ley del Talión, que ya hemos comentado: Ojo por ojo, diente por diente. Reclama que a quien haya obrado mal se le pague con la misma moneda; se puede usar como amenaza para el que está actuando de forma torticera, que no debe esperar que los demás se comporten con él mejor de lo que él mismo lo hizo, sino recibir en pago similar prenda.

Ejemplo: 
La cuestión es que Chávez ya se ha acostumbrado a inventar estos planes desestabilizadores; será por eso que dicen que “el que a hierro mata a hierro muere”. La cuestión es que él, desde 1999 asegura que los militares le han querido dar un golpe, luego lo dijo en 2000, en 2002 y de allí para adelante, todos los días, lo cual parece una obsesión o, también puede ser, una buena campaña propagandística göebeliana, como las que le enseñó Fidel Castro.
Chavez is in Venzuela for people who have never heard that name before.
---
we all here are happy that you are not Odoo by the way. It would simply not exist!
Fortunately there are many other people which are just the opposite and which help to keep people in the community!
---

Anyway.

Perhaps you understand it the way you like t have it:
I don't think that Giyf and that you RTFM you just posted here. You better STFW for better answers!

---
When somebody use what you do for free and put your principles in doubt then you can not expect receive claps.

Aren't you using an Open Source Product released under AGPL, LGPL License like many others do it the same way?
Have you ever read the license? I hope so as than you know that there is no restriction in using and even in distributing it for free.

If you don't like that release your stuff as proprietary code, close it down, put it under your pillow and be happy with it as another one might have a  similar Open Source Solution already. It is up to you! You make the decisions - but if you are using the AGPL, LGPL or LGPL or similar licenses don't complain about people using your stuff for free, as they are the ones making you not jobless!






Weren't those nice times, and nobody complained that their code get used by others for free! At that time even our ideas found nice responses and people liked to get things done and integrated in odoo the way we mentioned, some of those ideas are meanwhile available by the way. Great others unfortunately got only into the Enterprise Edition.

And listen carefully to those speaking and why they love Odoo. All of them are talking about the great OpenERP - now Odoo, and some even mention that it is so great and different from others as it has no closed source stuff in parallel etc. Yes this was a real Free Open Source Software Community in 2011!

And those are only very few of many other examples where People praise and market OpenERP for its real Free Open Source Community. Now in Odoo many of those are still in that community and many still try to keep that spirit up and running even it is hard, but others already are doing following the ones who close things down more and more.

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