Community mailing list archives
Re: request from central Europeby
I still feel sorry for you, it is a pitty you can't clean something without throwing dirty everywhere. Far away of giving light to a topic you just keep bluring the vision of everyone.
You have made your point.
The community will figure out what is the best for them and their customers.
"Your data won't be shared and you could have even your own hosting space."It is your own mind which seems to add things which have not been written here. This is simply a true statement that when running your own servers no Data get shared and that you can even have your own hosting space. Nothing wrong with that. Don't think so negative about Odoo Online. Why should it be demonstrated that data gets shared on Odoo online???When running your own Odoo installation on your own laptop than you could even disconnect it from the internet and still you could run successful Odoo.By the way you might mix things up a bit.This is a module which gets sold on the Odoo App store and their won't be any need for that module if their would not be such a functionality ;-)By the way this module you can install on any Odoo Community Edition but you can't install it on Odoo online!!! which also means you won't be able to prevent things happening if these things still happen. Check out also the websites which describe that functionality and on the mailinglists all those threads from the past which discuss it. There are quite a few.Also people reported that their customers had been contacted by Odoo S.A. - even they did not had access to their odoo installations.Another set of modules also helps to prevent similar things and branding. All are available and installable for Odoo Community Edition but not for Odoo Online as you won't be able to install your own modules on Odoo online. You simply have to take what is there and what Odoo S.A. will provide to you. You won;t even be able to check the sourcecode to understand and being able to check yourself or by someone who knows how to check things properly and from a neutral site and perspective in the interest of the customers.Have you read this here!
- Stop Scheduler for Sending Company/Database information to Odoo/OpenERP company.I think nobody who is using Odoo as a Customer is interested that his sensitive customers informations and perhaps more gets send on a regular schedule to Odoo S.A.I really recommend customers to check out the internet for many more posts about that Topic, which would simply NOT exist if it won't be there. Actually I haven't seen any other Open Source ERP System which such a big record of posts about their implemented phoning home stuff.For those in Germany perhaps already heard about http://myodoo.de which is trying to make Odoo much much safer - because of the very strict EU regulations and German regulations which are even tougher.If you are talking about damaging the image of odoo simply start removing all those really damaging posts from all those people and developers who write on their sites about the "evil" of odoo and how to make it secure. There would simply be absolutely no need if such functionality would have never been implemented in what way however.I think no customer has the time and man power to check each core change or module if again or even more stuff got implemented.Discussions about evil most often start with people start doing this evil stuff!Any more questions? or do you like more links so customers don't have to search to long to find it.Always keep in mind that anything written in the Internet gets indexed by search engines and this since years.I really recommend all customers to first test out odoo on their own machines and learn about the odoo features by i.e. visiting a training course. And this even before making a decision if using Odoo online would be good for them or not or if they would need a more flexible solution which would be Odoo Community on a server or even when they need some features which are only available since 9 in the Enterprise Edition, an Enterprise Contact with perhaps great difficulties later to make a step back to an Odoo Community Solution after they realized that the benefits and costs of the Enterprise Edition are not worth the money. What's how ever.What startups really need is a company which can give them an overview about the possibilities with odoo and be sure most startups don't know and never heard about what is really possible with odoo and how to set ip up differently!I would suggest prove that all those posts/modules and Threads from other people than me are telling the wrong stuff since years and try to polish the image of Odoo as it really would help to have clear answers also from Odoo S.A., but often people who ask won't get a clear answer on those points since years by those who provide the code! Why?It looks like you are not reading all those posts and you have never checked out all those modules, or even won't see them. I really recommend customers, especially Startups to contact an agency who knows about all of this and who are perhaps even using them! Don't trust blind - better keep an eye on it!Any further questions?ah forgotten here is the link to http://myodoo.de - which I recommend to use instaed of the Odoo Core! provided by Odoo S.A.. The people of Equitania did a really great job with that for the community of Odoo Users and Companies who would like to use Odoo especially in Europe. Simply contact them and they will tell what's up with Odoo and why they are doing that for their customers - and all aganecies who use their great cleaned up stuff.
Das Equitania Paket ist der "Quasi"-Standard für DeutschlandI would add everybody in the EU would do good in using it!AndiOn Fri, May 20, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Carlos Rodríguez <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
You have writen a lot and by that I mean nonsense, all you have said is widely known.
But it appears you are trying to sell "something" or even trying to prevent people to use the SaaS.
Anyway you avoided my first question. You said "Your data won't be shared and you could have even your own hosting space." You specifically said Data (not server, not IT resources, not disk space, not cloud space) DATA!.
My possition is quite simple, demonstrate that the DATA is shared on Odoo online. Is there an article? A newspaper? Any scientific and trustful source? Than can backup your words?
If you can't proove it then you were just trying to damage Odoo's image to the world and I feel sorry for you.
Carlos R.El may 19, 2016 9:17 PM, "Andreas Becker" <email@example.com> escribió:You have customers who simply don't like to host on the cloud - Odoo Online - and you have customers which have no problem with that.Customers who like to be under control of their data all the time and who like to run their own servers or own webspaces.You are right some even like to host on their webspaces which are nothing else than shared hosting spaces.Customers who like to run their own separate database and own separate Odoo Installation so that nothing gets shared with other people i.e. which are using the same database or the same odoo installation.Odoo can be set up in many many different ways.Odoo as SAAS (Odoo Online and other SAAS Odoo providers).Odoo running from one Postgres Installation but with many different Odoo Installations of the core (This is often the case with shared Hosters).Each Odoo has its own database and its own Odoo core and its own Odoo modules.Each Odoo connect to an own database but is running from the same core but has its own modules.Each Odoo connects to one Postgres Installation and the core gets shared between all Odoo installations but they still run their own modules.Each Odoo connects to one Postgres Installation and the core gets shared between all Odoo installations and they share all modules, even those not bundled with the core.and there are probably even more possibilities and scenarios.It is only fair to let customers know that they have a multitude of options with Odoo Community and they can switch between them - upgrade or downgrade.HazzleFree is one thing which odoo.online and other ODOO SAAS Providers try to achieve. But everything has its price!Especially Startups often have the problem that they can't invest so much money but they could invest time. In that case Odoo Online can get quite expensive as you are bind to what gets provided by the ODOO SAAS Service provider and as said odoo online is online one option, there are also other providers which Provide SAAS solutions based on Odoo.With the community Edition Startups who like to invest also some time for training can learn much more about how to handle their own odoo on their own servers / vps or cloud hosting spaces etc. - and they can run it on their own home computers too.The great thing on Odoo is that you are actually not bound to any Service provider if you like to really learn more about how things get done. You can simply start in your own premisses on your own laptops/computers and when you are ready to launch your startup you can still put all the stuff online by using the Odoo Community Edition from the start.The Odoo Community Edition is free (in terms of Costs (money) but also in terms of limitations and what you do with it - i.e. share your modules or even the whole setup etc with others ), it has great support, and it has tons of modules and best of all, with your feedback to the developers of modules you can help to make the community edition even much better.---- Security ----Well everything can get hacked. If Odoo Online gets hacked than perhaps all passwords and other data from all kind of people who host with Odoo online get exposed. Of course odoo will try to make everybody believe that they are the most secure place, but often the reality is somewhat different as you can read always again and again in the news. Wordpress Online got hacked and I remember that there was also some mail from odoo in the past that they got hacked and that we should change our passwords.Of course this can happen also with your own site, your own server but the difference is that in that case only your data gets exposed and not also the data of all other people who run an Odoo site.Policies are nice but Startups - actually everybody should evaluate their value before using them. This does not mean that Odoo Online is insecure but it also means that the guarantee that it is secure 100% can't be given by them.I mean:
- Servers. (one online, one for backup)
- RAID Disks.
- Perimeter Security.
- Air Conditioner and temperature control.
- Server Closets and other equipment to correctly install this.Don't make the decision more difficult than it is already for StartUps!Usually the decision is
- When does the installation need to go online? Do we really need an online solution right now?
- often the answer to this is already No we don't need to be online right now, often it is even no we don't want to be online right now!
- In that case an inhouse solution would be a great start - or even the own Laptop which gets backuped regularly to a handy USB drive after committing some changes. In that canse I would suggest using Odoo Community to start with and to test out all its possibilities and instead of investing in online hosting or even Odoo Online hire one who can teach you how to work with Odoo
- if yes, i.e. as the Startup has already some branches on different locations and a VNC connected server won't be a solution, than you have more options:
- using Odoo online, or other Odoo Saas Solutions - which also means that it is impossible or only very difficult to achieve customisations of code and design, you have to take what they will provide to you - no extras, or it is getting pretty expensive.
- using Odoo Community on a shared Hosting space which fits the odoo requirements. Here everybody can connect and often the Hosters provide the uptime guarantee and even do backups
- using Odoo Community on a managed Server, which provides also a postgres database (only a few do that!) In that case also the Hosting provider will ensue your uptime, often doing even regular backups and more
- using Odoo Community on a Cloud Server - Digital Ocean/Linode etc. but be careful - often you will need a lot of RAM and this is getting very costy. Also here often backupspace or snapshots etc can be done manually sometimes even automated.
- using Odoo Community on a VPN or an own dedicated Server. Hetzner has been named many times already where you can run Odoo just perfectly. Their servers have RAID Disks, Firewall, Antivirus is easy to achieve and to manage and they run their servers in really secure data Centers without NSA Access - of course Air Conditioned and Temperature Controlled and much more. Until now our customers who host with them are very very happy with them and had absolute no problem with their Odoo installations which were caused by their servers or a security problem.
- Who should manage the Odoo Administration and Server Administration
- if you have noone doing that or willing to learn about it take Odoo Online and get limited by their limits.
- if you have someone who like to learn more about it get him to a training or a least get him a trainer.
- you could also outsource the server maintenance and Odoo maintenance to someone will do it for you.
- We had customers in the past who had their own Server Administrators (i.e. from Ukraine - the dedicated Server in a data Center in Singapore and the Odoo Administrator was one of their own team.
- Others outsources both to an agency which helped them also to setup their servers, Odoo etc.
- And again others who wanted to use their own Hosting Spaces but needed someone who helped them to get odoo up and running.
- all of those have benefits and drawbacks but all of them are able to make changes at any time. If they are no more happy with the server admin or odoo admin or hosting etc they can simply switch to any other one or any other company. They don't get logged in in anything and can get out their data again at any time. They can very easily export and import their data from one Odoo Community Edition to another odoo Community Edition and they can run a backup of their complete odoo Community Edition even at any time on their own Laptop locally ;-) Here they can work on it even they are offline - if they like. They can copy it as many times as they like, which is often very helpful for Startups.
- Very helpful for Startups - this is our experience which might differ from yours - is that we usually set them up 2 or three odoo Installations. One is the fully fledged Odoo Community Edition with everything installed so they can actually see what they might need or might be useful for them. Another one where they start adding stuff as they need it and of course the Installation they work on. The first 2 of them are for training purposes before they try to do the same operations in their business Installation. If they like we set them up even more Odoos, i.e. for several people of their company who later on will work with their Odoo Business Installation.
Of course you could setup also several odoo Online accounts for everybody of them but than how do you copy all the data from one to another and keep it updated ;-) All this is with odoo Community much easier to achieve and there are lots of companies out there in the Odoo Univers who really like to train their customers to do things right and not only provide them an Odoo Installation and than you have to eat it or die with it. Odoo is a great too to learn things step by step and doing more and more operations by yourself and of course understanding what you are doing afterwards, which will help you also to solve problems or even better to avoid future problems.Fazit:A Startup with enough funding but no people who are interested in the technical stuff might use Odoo Onlineall others I would recommend to give first odoo Community Edition a try - even on your own Computers at Home and than make your decision. I am sure most of you will stay with Odoo Community Edition also in Future. Of course setup also a trial account on odoo Online and compare it ;-), so you can make sure that Odoo Online looks perhaps nicer - do to a nicer backend by default - but as said has its restrictions and limitations, while the beautiful mobile friendly backend can be achieved also in Odoo Community Edition easily and you are Master of all your data at any time!ThanksAndiOn Fri, May 20, 2016 at 3:56 AM, Fabien Pinckaers <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
Here are the details about Odoo Online's hosting hosting and security: https://www.odoo.com/page/security
Data are, of course, not shared between customers.On 19 May 2016 15:58, "Andreas Becker" <email@example.com> wrote:Hello PavelOr you are using the community edition which is free too but comes with lots of benefits .Especially for smaller SMEs the Community Edition is great way to go - especially when using a company/agency who provides you also a hosting space for your Odoo installation.Your data won't be shared and you could have even your own hosting space.Odoo Community is a great way to go and much more flexible than the online solution of Odoo. Also your data is safe in your hands all the time - no phoning home, no solicited mails etc and your Odoo installation will be extensible to whatever it should be lateron. Depending on the market and its restrictions (laws) you want to focus on and where the companies you were talking are located. the Odoo Community Edition can be adjusted just to their needs.if you have further questions contact us. Our servers are also in Germany.ThanksAndiOn Thu, May 19, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Fabien Pinckaers <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:Hello,For small / young companies (<20 users), we highly recommend to use Odoo Online. It works out-of-the-box and usually lead to a cheaper price as the service is included: unlimited support, low-cost implementation service, etc.Project managers and business analyst for Odoo Online work remotely. You can check the price of a full project, based on the scope (apps & users) here: http://odoo.com/pricing-onlineNote that there is a also a free offer, for single apps usage. It's probably the fastest way to start with Odoo.Thanks,--FabienOn Thu, May 19, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Pavel Curda <email@example.com> wrote:Hi,I am looking for a ODOO partner in Europe. I am working with a couple of young, but growing companies from central and eastern Europe .... they are looking for smart but not too costly, something better than Salesforce. ODOO?Who should I team up with?Pavel CurdaHustler & Connectgor & Writer@pavelcurda