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Re: ODOO 8 and ODOO 9 Themes - Licenses!

by
Andi Becker
- 12/20/2015 05:24:01
Well Bevan this is a quite ignorant point of view you have but I accept it. If you don't like that Topic simply filter it out. There are a lot of people reading exactly that topic but they don write here any comments as they know that there are people like you who like to stop discussions about that topic as soon as possible.

Please let us get an answer to these questions about the Odoo Themes, which includes also derivates based on the Odoo default Theme, nobody forces you to read that topic at all. It is a very important thing for our customers to know what licenses apply to those licenses so that they can make the correct decisions. As long as this point is not clear for everybody, this topic will pop up again and again. Look back and you will see a lot of Threads about Licensing which did not come from us but all are suffering a complete answer by those who are eligible to give a clarifying answer and you are simply not that person as you are not the owner of the code! 

This Thread is about the Odoo Themes and their licenses and what people can do or are not allowed to do with them. 

It would not even exist, when the situation would be clear and people, customers and companies who use or modify or even contribute such a Theme back to the community will probably get into serious financial problems.

It is about if those Themes are Modules which need to contain the license Odoo has got
It is about derivates based on those Themes, as you can find many of them in the internet and many of them stiff contain lots of references to theme_treehouse or theme_clean etc in their code. Will people, developer, companies etc will get in financial or legal problems if they use one of those derivates, even those derivates were based on the theme_clean or theme_treehouse etc Versions which were before the campaign publicly available - and actually promoted to be used as base for own themes by many here on the mailinglist - https://github.com/odoo/design-themes 

You your self stated in your previous post, that the situation especially for Odoo 7 and 8 is even more unclear as here those theme_something modules would need to be made their source_code accessible for the website users, which could be also you or me.

It is also about Themes like already mentioned here, i.e. the Material Theme, which is packed into a module and all functionality of that Theme simply needs to kook and call libraries and functions inside Odoo, which means they have to be AGPL in Version 8 or LGPL in Version 9. Beside this the Material Theme itself is under an MIT license and also this Theme is - as you might also have realised now available in quite a lot of git repositories!, simply update them!

Ok Beaven - perhaps you don't understand what I am actually talking about:

Let's give another example we found:

I guess you know the structure of an odoo theme so we don't need to show it here - (simply have a look into it)

Take as an example again our clean Theme:

in _openerp__.py you are calling the following xml files

   'data': [
        'data/image_content.xml',
        'views/assets.xml',
        'views/my_new_theme.xml',
        'views/customize_modal.xml',
        'views/snippets.xml',
        'views/snippet_templates.xml',
#        'views/snippet_options.xml',
    ],

You don't need the snippets so you deactivate them
Of course you modify the code according to your needs and you also rename some of the paths and variable which you think would be good to rename to gain a better overview. All other references you simply leave like is as you have no problem with the fact that people see that your theme is based on our example we are using on this thread which is theme_clean, lets take as an example even the version which was available for download by everyone before the campaign.

in your customize_modal.xml you leave most of the references as they won't be used by your theme either.

            <xpath expr="div" position="replace">
                <div id="theme_customize_modal" class="modal fade bs-example-modal-sm">
                    <div class="modal-dialog">
                        <div class="modal-content">
                            <div class="loading_backdrop"></div>
                            <div class="modal-header">
                                <button type="button" class="close">×</button>
                                <h4 class="modal-title" id="mySmallModalLabel">Customize your theme</h4>
                            </div>
                            <div class="modal-body panel-group clean-panel-group" id="accordion" role="tablist" aria-multiselectable="true">
                                <div class="panel panel-default clean-panel">
                                    <div class="panel-heading clean-panel-heading" role="tab" id="headingOne">
                                        <h4 class="panel-title clean-panel-title">
                                            <a data-toggle="collapse" data-parent="#accordion" href="#collapseOne" aria-expanded="true" aria-controls="collapseOne">
                                                CLEAN PRESETS
                                            </a>
                                        </h4>
                                    </div>
                                    <div id="collapseOne" class="panel-collapse collapse in" role="tabpanel" aria-labelledby="headingOne">
                                        <div class="panel-body clean-panel-body">
                                            <h5>Predefined Backgound, Colors and Fonts</h5>
                                            <table name="preset">
                                                <tr>
                                                    <td>
                                                        <label class="clean-bg-layout-combi">


etc. there is actually a lot of clean-somthing stuff in especially that customize_modal.xml. So I would say it is quite easily to find out that you based your theme on theme_clean ;-)

perhaps you leave even somethink like this in as you need it also on other places but don't need to change it especially for your purposes. so there is absolute no need you think to rename the reference and the file.

            <xpath expr="." position="inside">
                <link href="/theme_clean/static/src/less/options/layout_boxed.less" rel="stylesheet" type="text/less"/>
            </xpath>

You have changed the complete look, all images, the colors etc and much more but the boxed layout stays like is as it simply the base of your theme too.

Ok now you cold do - what was called here already as a "rewrite" - In school we would say you simply copy it with your pencil into your notebook, perhaps using another color. At courts in Germany this is called simply an "Abschrift". Call it like you want but it would not actually change its purpose and functionality, not even the look as somethings you simply can rewrite as often you like but they all will look the same.

If the theme_clean module which is even stored with its subfolders in the module folder which is "addons" or you custom addons folder, will now be regarded as Module as it contains the base module functionality, than it would be AGPL or LGPL and it simply has to be a GPL license too and you won't get into any trouble with it.

Take the other case, The owner of the code thinks that the theme_clean is not a module even it has been build using the module build script from within odoo itself, even it has the same structure like any other module and even most file extensions are like you can find in any other module, i.e. if you create reports! What we talk here is not only relevant for website themes but could also be very relevant for everybody who is creating reports and wants to sell them.

As you can see in the example above <xpath expressions get used to overwrite existing paths in the theme like you do when you overwrite with xpath any report form to customise it to your needs or perhaps you create even custom report packages for specific needs you intend to sell later on the Odoo app.store.

All of them are working exactly the same way! As they are in the opinion of any developers here nothing else than a regular module and therefor need to follow the overall License which is AGPL or GPL or LGPL but they can't be proprietary software!

The solution I demonstrated in my last post would actually solve this dilemma but until the css, js, xml etc gets distributed within those theme modules they fall under the GPL licenses I think. And I know that lots of developers here who now silently read those post think exactly that. Now perhaps got already into trouble because of that, this could be a reason if the owner of the code believes that it is not a module, which would be 180 degree contrary to what most others might believe and why they still base most of there themes on Odoo themes they got from several git repositories and from sites which are i.e. odoo 8 and their site owners give the visitors access to their source-code inside their addons folders where those themes reside.

Inspire to share might think many of them as they know this principal already from many other Free Open Source Projects licensed under one of the GPL licenses.

But meanwhile others will rub their hands with every downloaded and copied theme as they hope that those get published so they can charge them or the one who provided the free theme in the odoo app store fines or license fees - in short perhaps a lot of money ;-)

Do you see now the main problem when two opposite opinions come together with two very different interests too.

There are developers - and also this has been discussed many times already here, which actually copy modules of others, fill in their credentials and than resell it as theirs on the odoo app store. They are even so scrupulous to wipe out any reference which would make it easy to trace the origin of a certain module.

This Theme developer in our example here, who publishes a derivate of theme_clean with a different look and feel but on the same base instead leaves references which are not needed or which are simply not necessary to be changed does not hide the origin of theme_clean. But what can he do if now the bill comes in with the post or mail to pay for 10 downloads plus his own theme 199 $ each? even that theme was free available. He simply believed in AGPL and LGPL and that all modules get stored in addons folder or your custom folder and that every thing stored there is a module which has to follow the GPL licenses. Sorry to say that but this is what most of the community developers i would say actually believe!

This developer in trouble who left some references and was not as scrupulous as others who "rewrite" any part with their own references to make tracing difficult now call for another crowdfunding campaign to get the people who downloaded those themes (where he probably not even know who they are, and all those who pulled the theme fro his git or even the git from another developer who had pulled it already from a site of a customer from again another developer but who simply the source-code of all modules incl those theme modules in his addons folder(s) available according to the AGPL?

Go to indiegoo well for what - to fund a lawyer to run a case against the owner to bring like into the darkness for lots of others. or fund for creating now real AGPL 100% themes which than can be copied and multiplied which are than a real benefit for the complete community, he would even put the copyright under the Free Software Foundation of each of those modules and themes to make sure they won't be used in commercial software and of course all of them would be AGPL and not LGPL. But as AGPL modules can be used also in LGPL projects also Odoo 9 would benefit from that.

By the way I think that such a community campaign with goal to put all under the FSF and leave it AGPL even would get more than those small 620% funding of the Odoo Theme campaign and that in one year you would see over 100 perhaps even over 200 Themes and themes customisations for odoo CommunityEdition freely available. With this odoo Community could simply mutate to be the future Wordpress of Blog/CMS/ERP etc systems. Perhaps even SAP. Microoft, Google etc. would sponsor such an effort, who knows, if you combine that theme_module effort with some social projects which promote i.e woman as software developers.


This is only one example which is also running on indiegogo.

Have anice sunday evening

Andi

P.S. @Luke

Thanks for your answer as it shows that people are reading this Thread. And i fully understand you by the way!

I used the theme_clean because you have posted that you will bring back the repository after the campaign, and you posted also great tutorials about it. i cited already the quote above. I have no problem if this repository or any repository comes back again or not, but perhaps people have done the job and adjusted theme_clean to the needs of odoo8 and they kept those references. As you say it was freely available. Nevermind. I only want to have a clear answer wether those theme_modules are under a GPL license and I want to give also those developers an idea what might could happen to them if they would leave references in the code, or if they would take a theme for the app store and modify it to their needs and than distribute it through channels like app store, git hub, or anything else. I care for developers in that community and I hope that many are reading this Thread and can count 1 plus 1 as equals 2 together. I know quite a few who do exactly what I described and this might be a warning sign for them too for all those who still believe that all Odoo is under a GPL license. 

By the way I am pretty sure that in the next weeks a lot of repositories with themes will simply vanish away from those gits, which don't contain a AGPL license. 

And to make sure you don't miss understand me, I have never said that you are one of those unscrupulous module modifiers, it was somebody else - 

Beavan  wrote: "perhaps Luke incorrectly modified the license conditions, in which case you also don’t have a valid license, since Luke had no power to grant third-party licenses, nor to modify the existing license conditions"

I know you Luke since years actually as a very helpful and on teaching others oriented odoo community developer and would never thing such a thing of you! This really did never come to my mind but as you can read to the mind of others. You are one of those Inspire to share developers I mentioned before, which help the community and which contain the sense of GPL their hearts. I would for sue do also the same if you would get i trouble because of what I wrote and because you are one of those developers really needed to have a lot of more of them!

If a clarifying answer would exist already, we would not need all this discussion! Some have already written to odoo and are still waiting for answers, let's hope that those who wrote again now will get an answer soon and that they will share their experience here too.

Only to let you know I am for sure not discussing a fiction story, even I like Starwars! I hope that this thread is also some kid of eye opening and awakening what can happen as it perhaps even happened and this what you think is only blabla is simply the reality!

I have said everything I wanted to say to that theme and let's wait for an answer from those who are eligible to give an answer and than we can discuss it further.

By the way we are actually using always the build in theme default and modifying that or are creating an own theme module based on accessible code and scripts as all odoo themes are not at all accessible and therefore unfortunately of no usage. We are using Odoo 9 by the way as it is LGPL and we don't get forced to publish the code. Our themes are usually GPL! This only as a side information.

We were actually a bit lucky even that Odoo switched to be LGPL because of that sharing in AGPL as our customers did not like that their Themes with their look and feel get shared all around the globe and multiplied by many others. They love to keep their own CI.

This is also why I would propose to build a Theme Uploader and keep all themes itself in a separate folder structure which is not the Odoo addons folder. This might be a suggestion Odoo or the community could implement in future releases or as a module.

Kind regards and a happy 4th Advent to you in Hongkong. I will be there quite soon! 

Andi