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RE: ODOO 8 and ODOO 9 Themes - Licenses!

by
kaizen__
- 12/19/2015 21:25:01

Andreas,

 

Please stop spamming this list with your licensing concerns, and general spreading of fear, uncertainty and doubt.

You’re almost making it sound like you are a Tryton employee on this list just to spread negative gossip about Odoo… and to repurpose your comments… I’m after proof that you’re not ;)

 

Pretty much all of this boils down to very simple licensing conditions (re: themes)

a)      Was the Luke Branch theme justifiably available as an AGPL version?  (if Luke himself didn’t create it, or have explicit permissions to license it as AGPL then the answer here is no).

a.       If yes, then you are free to extend this version (the AGPL version), as allowed by the AGPL, but bearing in mind the responsibilities of the AGPL on you.

b.      If no, then you are bound by whatever license conditions rightfully applied to the theme (perhaps Luke incorrectly modified the license conditions, in which case you also don’t have a valid license, since Luke had no power to grant third-party licenses, nor to modify the existing license conditions).  In this situation you shouldn’t use the code as a basis for anything.  You should instead find a genuine AGPL version, or develop your own.  If you decide to ignore this, and extend from this invalid license version, then Odoo has no responsibility to advise you ahead of time what your future liabilities might be… if it was their work, that was then misattributed by Luke, and then modified by you for use… they may very well decide that the cost of use is $1 MILLLION DOLLARS mwahahahaha… it then becomes a lawsuit situation around whether that is justifiable, and which party in such a legal proceeding has the better lawyers.  My recommendation, get confirmation from Luke regarding what the proper license conditions were.  He pulled it down for a reason.  If you aren’t able to get an appropriate answer from Luke, then you should assume that the theme is not suitably licensed for you to extend/modify.

b)      For non-Odoo generated content, Odoo simply can’t comment regarding licensing.  How would they possibly know what license applies for it?  If a theme is deployed on an Enterprise edition system, then it could have absolutely any license that the author cares to use.  If it’s on a Community edition system, then it could also have almost any license that the author cares to use, LGPL is quite liberal in this regards.

 

If you’re talking about v7 and v8, then this gets a little bit tricky.  The publicly distributed version of Odoo was AGPL, however a private license was available for partners and certain customers.  If using the private license, then the AGPL conditions do not apply.  If using the publically available AGPL version, then all modifications to this would need to also be released as per the AGPL.  It might get a little bit tricky if themes are considered ‘configuration items’ instead of part of the actual program / application however.  I would suggest they could be considered separate, as they don’t control the functionality of the program, just the appearance.  If you run an AGPL application, but modify your Windows / X11 configuration to make it appear different… you clearly wouldn’t be required to release this as AGPL, so a similar argument could be proposed for themes.

 

 

For Odoo Enterprise vs Community

Odoo have repeatedly mentioned that at no time would they hold the customer data hostage.  So, if you are paying for the Enterprise edition, then you are allowed to use the Enterprise edition features, including it generating special data related to these features (like the VOIP listings, or certain web configurations).

If you decide to stop paying for the Enterprise edition, then by law, you have lost the ability to continue using the Enterprise edition (albeit as far as I’m aware there is no deactivation code within the Enterprise edition, so it would still ‘run’, you just wouldn’t be licensed to actually run it).  However all of your information is still available within the Postgres database, and will not be deleted or destroyed by the Enterprise edition software.

 

If you want to use the Community edition afterwards, this would be fine, but obviously the additional data in the Postgres database might not play nicely with the Community edition (since there will be Enterprise-only modules missing).  It would be your responsibility to tidy up these associations, and otherwise reformat the Enteprise edition specific data to work in your Community edition system.

 

 

Regards,

Bevan

 

 

From: Andreas Becker [mailto:andi@lisandi.com]
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2015 12:39 PM
To: Community <community@mail.odoo.com>
Subject: Re: ODOO 8 and ODOO 9 Themes - Licenses!

 

Dear Fabien and Odoo App/Theme Store Team

 

Concerning the Theme Licensing and selling/offering for Free discussion I would like to get some answers from you or anybody else who is responsible for the Odoo S.A, Store. Below I will describe several scenario how we could accomplis our goals and we would like to know what kind of costs, if any, might occur to us, our developers or our customers and also to those people who might find the Theme again in one of the git repositories of those customers who follow the AGPL guidelines.

 

---

 

Scenario 1

 

---

 

Step 1:

We fork the Clean Theme Module which was available in the git repository by Luke Branch before the indiegogo campain and start developing on it. (Luke's git is only an example as he has written on the mailinglists that he has the theme_clean and derivates on it but took it down for the campaign)

 

Step 2:

We change images and text and adjust the scripts to the newest versions and do some css improvements so that at the end pretty much the same stable template will be available like the odoo module clean_theme which is available in the Odoo store.

 

Step 3:

We now upload that Theme to Odoo Store and it gets downloaded 10 times. Of course we don't charge anything for the theme as we want to give something back to the community. All 10 customers will use the Odoo Theme Clean Module Derivate on their Live website.

 

Our Question to you and your team!

Will this cause any problems or costs for us. If yes which kind of costs and how much! We will provide a version under AGPL for Version 8 and for Version 9 (will be also an AGPL Odoo Theme Module based on Module_Clean_Theme which we found in Luke Branch repository before the campaign.)

 

The overall look of the theme might be different from the Clean_Theme by Odoo as we will use other imagery i.e. some for lawyers, property market, schools etc.

 

---

 

Scenario 2

 

---

 

Step 1:

We buy a new Version of Odoo Clean Theme in the Odoo store. We realize that there is no license in the Theme Module and assume that module as Public Domain and start developing our derivates.

 

Step 2: stays as described above in Scenario 1

 

Step 3: stays as described above in Scenario 1

 

Our Question to you and your team! stays as described above in Scenario 1

 

---

 

Scenarion 3

 

---

 

Step 1:

We find in one of the repositories of a customer from another developer the newest Version of Module_Theme_Clean. This customer loves Free Open Source Software and its community and has made all the software he used available according the AGPL License. 

 

We pull that Theme fro his git repository and start developing our derivate(s)

 

Step 2: stays as described above in Scenario 1

 

Step 3: stays as described above in Scenario 1

 

Our Question to you and your team! stays as described above in Scenario 1

 

---

 

Scenarion 5

 

---

 

Step 1:

We fork the Clean Theme Module which was available in the git repository by Luke Branch before the indiegogo campain and start developing on it. (like in Scenario 1)

 

Step 2: stays as described above in Scenario 1

 

Step 3: 

Now we don't upload it to the Odoo store but instead we upload it to our git and perhaps even to the OCA git repository and promote our release by multiple other marketing channels i.e. newsletters, forums, and of course the mailinglists here. 

 

The marketing goes great and at least 10 people downloaded the Theme and another 10 forked the Theme and all are using it on their live websites.

 

Our Question to you and your team! stays as described above in Scenario 1

 

---

 

Scenarion 4

 

---

 

Step 1:

We buy a new Version of Odoo Clean Theme in the Odoo store. We realize that there is no license in the Theme Module and assume that module as Public Domain and start developing our derivates. (like in Scenario 2)

 

Step 2: stays as described above in Scenario 1

 

Step 3: 

Now we don't upload it to the Odoo store but instead we upload it to our git and perhaps even to the OCA git repository and promote our release by multiple other marketing channels i.e. newsletters, forums, and of course the mailinglists here. 

 

The marketing goes great and at least 10 people downloaded the Theme and another 10 forked the Theme and all are using it on their live websites.

 

Our Question to you and your team! stays as described above in Scenario 1

 

---

 

Scenarion 6

 

---

 

Step 1:

We find in one of the repositories of a customer from another developer the newest Version of Module_Theme_Clean. This customer loves Free Open Source Software and its community and has made all the software he used available according the AGPL License. 

 

We pull that Theme fro his git repository and start developing our derivate(s)

 

Step 2: stays as described above in Scenario 1

 

Step 3: 

Now we don't upload it to the Odoo store but instead we upload it to our git and perhaps even to the OCA git repository and promote our release by multiple other marketing channels i.e. newsletters, forums, and of course the mailinglists here. 

 

The marketing goes great and at least 10 people downloaded the Theme and another 10 forked the Theme and all are using it on their live websites.

 

Our Question to you and your team! stays as described above in Scenario 1

 

---

 

There might be many more scenarios, especially when a Theme gets distributed by git repositories where you don't have access to its statistics and can't even monitor who the person is who downloads the theme.

 

==========

 

In all above cases we act fair and according to the GPL Licenses and keep the copyright and even references to Odoo S.A, as is. So every one will know that the original developer was odoo S.A. and that we only deliver a derivate based on Module_Theme_Clean.

 

==========

 

In the following Scenarios we still keep the copy right notice but add an AGPL License and delete all references to Odoo S.A, beside the copyright (this is what will stay)

 

Please answer here the same questions like in Scenario 1 - 6, if we delete or replace all references to Odoo beside the copyright. Of course also the price-tag will be set to Free.

 

==========

 

I think those are some real world examples and we as developers, or as customers who use Odoo Themes based perhaps on Module_Theme_Clean or any other module_theme which i also available for a certain price on the odoo store, have to deal with.

 

  1. What will happen if we do Scenarion 1 - 6 and Scenarion 1 - 6 with deleted/replaced references?

  2. How much will it cost the developer who is developing the Theme Derivate?

  3. How much will it cost the Developer/Company which is uploading the Theme to the odoo store?

  4. How much will it cost the Customer who is using this Theme derivate on his live website?

  5. How much will it cost the owner of a git repository who offers a copy or fork of our derivate in his own git repository?

  6. What License need to be appied to those Versions?

  7. Can we apply a license to our derivate as the original one does not contain any licenses?

  8. Can you please answer also one final Scenarios, What are your answers to the Questions 1-7 if we use the build in Odoo_standard_Theme (default theme) instead of Odoo_Module_Theme_Clean!

Is it true that the default Theme is actually a derivate of the Treehouse Theme?

 

I hope we will get some answers soon

 

I have chosen Theme_Clean only as an example so please don't restrict your answers only on Theme Clean. It would be nice if your answers would be valid for any other Theme, even those not offered by Odoo S.A. in the Odoo Store or a Git repository.

 

Thanks a lot for your effort and looking forward to receive some answers before Christmas so we can use the Holiday season for our Theme Development Effort.

 

Andi


 

With kind regards,
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Con un cordial saludo,
Cordialement,
с сердечным приветом,
เรื่องที่เกี่ยวกับชนิด,
與親切的問候,

 ANDI BECKER

CEO/General Manager LisAndi Co., Ltd.

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On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 7:57 AM, Caudal Eric <caudaleric@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Dominique,

I think Nhomar and myself are on the same page.

Basically my point was that the customer still owns his own data in PostgresQL but cannot use the modules anymore.

If you built a 10000 phone calls database with VoIP, you will still be able to access the raw data in PG.

 

I hope this is clearer that way

 

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 8:49 AM Nhomar Hernández <nhomar@gmail.com> wrote:

 

2015-12-19 17:48 GMT-06:00 Dominique Chabord <dominique.chabord@sisalp.org>:

you so clearly confirm that your understanding is the opposite of Eric's one.

 

Dominique.

 

You are misinterpreting eric words, He said:

 

"""

Yes: this is a subscription available as long as you pay for it. You do not lose the data at the end of subscription though.
"""

 

Which is exactly what I said, just using other words.

 

And Yes I know what happen (From Enterprise to Community), what Are you trying to show here creating an opinion and mixing conclusions which are not true?

 

I oversimplify the answer again.

 

Pay - Right to use.

Not Pay - No right to Use.

 

On What?

 

Code on enterpris.

 

Data ownership?

 

Customer.

 

Data Blocking from a funstional PoV:

 

Just when you cleanup modules from your DB, but even there is no code that simpy block the enterprise.

 

Then... Do not try to conclude things which I am not saying.

 

--

--------------------
Saludos Cordiales

CEO at Vauxoo Odoo's Gold Partner.

 

--

Nhomar Hernandez

 

_______________________________________________

--

Eric  Caudal (from my mobile)

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