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Re: ODOO 8 and ODOO 9 Themes - Licenses!

by
Ygol InternetWork, Yves Goldberg
- 12/19/2015 10:30:11
Thank you for your answer Andi. This is all so confusing.
I asked already several times Odoo about these questions (mainly regarding the VoIP module).
I also asked a clients to ask the same question to odoo directly but never got a clear answer about the license under wihch this module is distributed and what I can or cannot do.
 
 
--
Yves Goldberg
--
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original message -----
From: Andreas Becker <andi@lisandi.com>
To: Community <community@mail.odoo.com>
Subject: Re: ODOO 8 and ODOO 9 Themes - Licenses!
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:07:40 -0000
 
Hi Yves
 
I would say IMHO he has not to stop using those modules on his private machines when he bought them or when he has subscribed for them to receive updates. Of course he won't get updates anymore after he ends the subscription, so he has to maintain it by himself and won't be able to redistribute the code if it is a commercial module with an Eula and no LGPL or AGPL license. If the module has no License Published it could be considered as Public Domain.
 
You need to be careful as the Enterprise Edition has its own license, but modules working in that Enterprise Edition might be even AGPL GPL or LGPL 
 
This software and associated files (the "Software") can only be used (executed, modified, executed after modifications) with a valid Odoo Enterprise Subscription for the correct number of users.
 
If the module is an AGPL or LGPL module, than he can even put the module back into open source and he can republish his derivates and modifications even for free and for everyone and hope to get other developers to keep his version of the module up and running even with current Enterprise versions or the Community Edition. 
 
With a valid Partnership Agreement with Odoo S.A., the above permissions are also granted, as long as the usage is limited to a testing or development environment.
 
This is something like the small worm who tries to catch the big fish. It gives every partner the right to use the Enterprise Edition for his testing and development purposes. It is a way that even a Vendor Login like the Enterprise Edition has perfectly managed to do with their subscription services still gets valuable contributions to that Enterprise Edition from the community ;-)
 
You may develop Odoo modules based on the Software and distribute them under the license of your choice, provided that it is compatible with the terms of the Odoo Enterprise Edition License (For example: LGPL, MIT, or proprietary licenses similar to this one).
You may use Odoo modules published under any license along with the Software, provided that their license is compatible with the terms of the Odoo Enterprise License (Including, but not limited to, any module published on the Odoo Apps Store on odoo.com/apps)
It is forbidden to publish, distribute, sublicense, or sell copies of the Software or modified copies of the Software.
 
The Odoo Enterprise Edition is actually the starting Point to knock you out! and your customers, as Eric already mentioned. They simply have to stop using the software and can only use those parts which are LGPL, AGPL or under any other License which is not under the Odoo Enterprise License or a license which does not allow things either.
 
It is nothing else than a Vendor Login Model! 
 
This is actually the biggest fear customers have, that they at one time like to get out of that subscription service and want back to the community version, but they cannot get there!
 
So it is much better for them to stay with the community edition and its GPL conform licenses BUT and this is a big BUT also here the licenses need to be respected by everyone and this is currently not the case as you see on the examples published here on the mailinglists already
 
Kuali ERP is practicing even some kind of Vendor Login with their Membership Model! They did not change the License to LGPL to keep secure their assets (with no need to give it back to the community) like Odoo S.A. did.
For a clear and even better answer contact Richard and his team at FSF.org or ask a lawyer who works with them.
 
@Eric
 
well it might look that I am pretty new here but actually I work with OpenERP since Version 5 and was there before the big splitting. At that time we had to make a big decision to either follow with Tryton who had the health part we needed a lot for doctor stations etc. or to stay with OpenERP which had actually all the other parts we needed (actually our customers needed) As the health projects were related to social projects we did which got financed by other projects we did actually for customers who did not need the health part we had no choice than to stay with OpenERP. 
 
Fortunately at the same time we got lots of other projects coming in with TYPO3 so this problem and also our activities at the OpenERP space got quite limited (no time simply).
 
Than as the website builder came out we had a look at it and started to promote OpenERP again, but this time also to our usual customers which usually use TYPO3 but often also needed functionality which was already there in OpenERP. You can check back to that time and you will find a lot of forum posts with lots and lots of ideas were some of those ideas are now actually available in the Enterprise Edition but unfortunately not in the community Edition. As the website Builder wasn't stable at all at that time we did not get many customers to use it. Than with ODOO 8 we had projects which were for internal purposes of companies, they did not need the internet part at all. Mainly accounting and POS stuff or for schools. As Odoo changed again their license to LGPL customers got waked up again and contacted us again and we had a look again to what is actually going on here also with the website builder and its Themes.
 
We see a huge potential with the website builder actually like we had written already when it started in Version 7 but the biggest issue right now is what we would call branding and malware issues which are build into odoo and the very unclear status of licensing. Concerning the Malware and branding stuff we are able to reduce the risk for the customer that his data get exposed but with the licenses this is a real problem. Some of our potential customers are afraid that they have to pay for things at a later time because this situation has not been cleared up before. And they really like Odoo.
 
So this is what this thread hopefully will help to clear up and that things like described will never happen or happen again if they happened already.
 
Right now the main question is about those Theme Modules. Some contain Licenses there it is clear. But all Odoo Theme Modules contain nothing so they are actually to be considered as Public Domain and can be modified and redistributed in any form.
 
If i.e. a Theme Modul is LGPL or AGPL there are simply no license issues at all unless somebody is using content inside those modules (images or texts - which are licensed under another license) But also this license has to be made visible so people know about it. Have a look to those Odoo Themes which you can actually find in many repositories all around the globe for free download and you won't find any license texts in Odoo Theme Modules!
 
The Clean Theme which I took here as an example was the base an starting point for many who developed Themes. So if you now develop on base of Clean Theme and offer it for free in the Odoo Store and lets take our example number 10 developers will download that Free Theme you offer on base of Clean Theme what will happen? Will Odoo ring or write to you and let you pay for 10 * 199 plus the license for you own?
 
Please start thinking and read between the lines Eric. This is a real world scenario I think which will simply happen because of all that confusion of those licenses and I think that this - exactly this is the reason why Luke Branch and others who had the Clean and other Themes available in their Repositories and who all promised to bring it back after the campaign ended until not did what they promised. They are simply afraid that they even have to pay for all derivates they have done for their customers. I hope you understand what I am talking about. I am really getting serious with that as I feel that something is totally wrong here! And I am pretty sure that this is not only a feeling! Sorry!
 
The Force of the Community has to start open up their eyes at get their Awakening asap as it is 5 before High Noon!
 
Andi
 
 
 

With kind regards,
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Con un cordial saludo,
Cordialement,
с сердечным приветом,
เรื่องที่เกี่ยวกับชนิด,
與親切的問候,

ANDI BECKER


CEO/General Manager LisAndi Co., Ltd.

 
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On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 9:02 PM, <info@ygol.com> wrote:
- Thank you Eric,
 
- If a customer contract the enterprise licensing and thus use the v9 Enterprise's modules and after few years decide to not renew it. Does he has to stop using those modules?
 
 
 
 
 
--
Yves Goldberg
--
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original message -----
From: Caudal Eric <caudaleric@gmail.com>
To: Community <community@mail.odoo.com>
Subject: Re: ODOO 8 and ODOO 9 Themes - Licenses!
 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 10:38:27 -0000
 
 
@Yves,
 
You can fully use v9 community edition as open source and even fork it knowing that you will have to keep the LGPL license for the code belonging to Odoo sa.
 
 
 
On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 5:20 PM <info@ygol.com> wrote:
 
 
So as you said Eric, for those who wants to stay within open code we have to stay on V8, fork or find ourselves another solution but it is not clear how we can continue in the new ecosysyem started with V9.
 
Did I got this right?
 
--
Yves Goldberg
--
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original message -----
From: Caudal Eric <caudaleric@gmail.com>
To: Community <community@mail.odoo.com>
Subject: Re: ODOO 8 and ODOO 9 Themes - Licenses!
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 08:18:27 -0000
 
 
Andreas,
 
You cite several texts without sources like people thinking the Holy scriptures ARE gods words... when they are only an interpretation from witnesses.
 
Nowhere it says that you have to serve the code in the server you use or anything alike. Here is what it says:
 
> The GNU Affero General Public License is designed specifically to
ensure that, in such cases, the modified source code becomes available
to the community.  It requires the operator of a network server to
provide the source code of the modified version running there to the
users of that server.  Therefore, public use of a modified version, on
a publicly accessible server, gives the public access to the source
code of the modified version.
 
That's all: the rest is mere interpretation that wont hold in court.
 
 
Another thought: I highly respect Jay and his work and I think we should stop asking why he had to remove the theme. He probably had to do it for good reasons that might be simply he accidentally used some piece of code that was copyrighted.
My point is: this polemic around this theme is non sense as we dont know the reasons and they might actually be valid.
 
Last but not least, I work with the OCA but highly respect the work of Odoo. I do think that there is room for both AGPL alternative and a the current offer from Odoo. Current situation with OCA and Odoo is fruitful for both world.
 
Actually, you do not have to buy the Enterprise Edition, you dont even have to use the LGPL community edition v9, if you want it full AGPL ERP, I recommend you to fork from v8, gather a community and continue the maintenance in AGPL.
 
But please stop flooding this mailing list with populism or demagogic mails. 
 
 
 
On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 3:35 PM Fabien Bourgeois <fabien@yaltik.com> wrote:
Le 19/12/2015 08:02, James Fox a écrit :
> *Thus we need a clearly and unequivocal statement from Odoo SA as to
> whether theme modules are required to be licensed under AGPL/LGPL or if
> you can make up whatever license you like.*

I'm pretty sure that, for Odoo v8 and AGPL, all modules and themes must 
be published under a compatible license.

If you have an access to the theme, like a demo or the current live 
preview into the store, you must have access to the source code, thanks 
to the AGPL and the network redistribution already mentioned.

Wordpress and Drupal are clear about that :
https://www.drupal.org/about/licensing#q7

And no, loading code into database doesn't allow to bypass the GPL. It's 
still a derivative work (which need AGPL code to run).

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