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Re: Odoo / Python 3

by
Andi Becker
- 11/16/2015 23:00:15
Ok can somebody setup a new branch on OCA I would suggest.

-->> When I write in capital letters below it is not shouting but trying to keep a structure! and setting some headers!

Call it ODOO3 or odoo3 whats however

At first we should get the base install working in py3, which means the following modules would need to be converted. If we start with Version 8 than everything could even stay in AGPL without any problem. Actually also Version 9 could stay AGPL if we only convert the core base as most of it is still AGPL v.3!

==== Preparation Phase ====
A Bill Gates of Belgium ones wrote:

"To fuel my motivation, I had to pick someone to fight against. In business, it's like a playground. When you arrive in a new school, if you want to quickly become the leader, you must choose the class bully, the older guy who terrorises small boys, and kick his butt in front of everyone. That was my strategy with SAP, the enterprise software giant."

well this has been done but we have still Odoo 2.7 which is not good to fight against but we also have Tryton which is already 3. and they are still missing important parts! So it is not good to face those as your rivals for your motivation.

but at the and the same man wrote:

"Our exceptional technology allowed us to move to newer markets (CMS & eCommerce) and propose a product that disrupt existing open source players (Wordpress, Magento, etc). The OpenERP CMS is so good that even top competitors admited it publicly when we released the beta version."

and this is exactly where we should see the reason why converting it to Python3 >> to get even much more power than all of those other CMS Systems and we should start different like Fabien Started years ago with accounting, no we should start with THAT feature which is actually the best for creating a huge community of users all around the world. In a time where people love to have websites and stuff like wix and other website builders boom, we should start with the website builder and Contact Management - continuing to the Shop and Marketing features simply because those features will bring the eyes and not only those having a look to this awesome Odoo3 we will create on base of Python3.

Yes we will have competitors which all try to build a system which has a website builder

Website Baker - yeah oh I love drinking coffee and eating cake while this awesome stuff gets loaded each time I click save.

Visual Composer - Man - that is great stuff as it will train your imagination where things belong to. It is not so wysiwig like in odoo3 where you see what you will get instantly by dragging and dropping.

Have a look to all examples of having Frontend editing and designing available in Drupal - They all together lack the most important feature - USABILITY and being fast.

WordPress 4 lacks still the translation stuff and you need extra pluggins etc and even Drupal 8 which now has that translation feature in core can't compete with Odoo3 which simply does it intuitively in the Frontend.

Last but not least the new Star 7 LTS from the so called Enterprise CMS TYPO3 it is a great margin for ODOO3 actually. Why? well huge companies and organisations choose TYPO3 for its stability, flexibility, easiness to customize (is it really so easy - well it is if you know how, but it can be also a pain in the ass to be honest for users - especially those of NGO organisations which often don't have the funding to hire professional staff which focusses only in getting TYPO3 up an running and updated and ... wow a lot to do.

In comparison to that ODOO3 has everything already build in after the Odoo2.7 stuff has been converted to Odoo3. For a backup you receive a single file - could't be better. well you know all the benefits already of Odoo but those guys out there still using one of those aged CMSs they don't.

So Let's start!


======== STEP 1 =========

I suggest to create the project ODOO3 with Branches 8.0 and 9.0 - really call it ODOO3 and write it even in big Letters like TYPO3 in all your Texts and articles so that it sticks out of the text and that it shows who is a giant to be compared with.

Before starting we should cut all stuff out which is actually not needed to get the Base running

========================================

Active Modules:  ( - has outgoing mailserver) - no need to setup stuff on your server like postfix ect.



Cutting out all kind of addons which are actually not needed for a base install!

From the odoo addons path are needed only the following modules:

auth_crypt 

  • Password Encryption


base 

  • Base


base-import 

  • Base Import


report 

  • Report


web 

  • Web


web_calender 

  • Web Calendar


web_diagram 

  • OpenERP Web Diagram


web_editor 

  • Web Editor


web_kanban 

  • Base Kanban


web_kanban_gauge 

  • Gauge Widget for Kanban


web_planner 

  • Planner 
  • Help to configure applications


web_settings_dashboard 

  • Ooo Settings Dashboard 
  • Quick actions for installing new app, adding users, completing planners, etc.


web_tip 

  • Tips


web_view_editor 

  • View Editor
===========================

To reduce the need to check stuff twice (for phone back functionality) and for branding stuff simply cut those parts out, so that they are gone forever!
So we will get a clean Version py3 branch which isn't phoning to anybody and which everyone could use instantly also for his works without the need to overwrite at multiple places stuff. Instead people can setup there own branding and phoning back module to do that if really necessary. I recommend leaving the Powered by Odoo in the backend to the bottom thow to honor the work Fabien has done so far. It could link to the Odoo tutorials.

===========================

STEP 2 - BUILDING A WEBSITE - and we will start beating at least Wordpress - for sure!

===========================================


Webseite Module: 


website 

  • Website Builder


theme_default

  • Default Theme (comes with Odoo.com Link in Footer and other places) get that out as it costs useless time we need for our customers and customers don't like that in usually!


===========================================


STEP 2 a-z BUILDING THEMES AND SNIPPETS


already here we could create a good income for the OCA to finance further projects for making ODOO3 happening.Themes sold for ODOO3 and snippets for ODOO3 would need only small python know how and could be accomplished by nearly anybody easily who has already developped Themes and snippets for other CMS systems and who is great in Design html5, css etc.


In parallel improvements to the website editor can be made that ODOO3 will have an html5, w3c and wasgi conform editor - the one right now in odoo 9.0 produces much to much code which actually does not belong into an accessible website. Many governments made it already mandatory that websites need to be accessible!


In other word all this stuff could be developed in parallel. By the way the great formbuilder (js) of processwire could be integrated somehow if the one for the Enterprise Odoo won't be reachable. The same applies to the css/less editor. 


============================================


STEP 3 - STAYING IN CONTACT - the first thing customers usually ask is if their website will have a contact form - well we have even more and exactly that "more" will get them infected with the ODOO3 virus which never let them go like years ago the TYPO3 virus were people only get rid off some years ago when some only business and money orientated people took over the lead of TYPO3 and had forgotten the community. Those now try to infect Drupal or other CMSs. and Drupal 8 to be honest is getting to have a viral effect but the ODOO3 one could be even much bigger.

============================================

 

Contact Form Module: ( - has incoming mailserver)


website-contact 

  • Contact Form


crm 

  • CRM 
  • Leads, Opportunities, Activities


mail 

  • Discuss 
  • Discussions, Mailing Lists, News


auth_signup 

  • Signup (it connects to oodo.com by default
  • Allow users to sign up and reset their password (no hint to default odoo.com!) - keep the module but make it phoneing to none of these services by default!
    Company owners are mature users which want to choose and don't want to get dictated only in one direction - in that case odoo.com. Leave it bu nothing will be the default. The dafault should be always the normal way of getting your passwords as long as you haven't chosen one of those providers.


base_action_rule

  • Automates Action Rules


bus

  • IM Bus


fetch mail

  • Email Gateway


im_odoo_support

  • Odoo Live Support
  • Chat with the Odoo collaborators (links to odoo.com) get rid of that as it is not needed in an unbranded and no phone home edition.


marketing

  • Marketing


portal

  • Portal


resource

  • Resource


sales_team

  • Sales Teams


utm

  • UTM Trackers


website_form

  • Generic Form Controller
  • Generic controller for web forms


website_mail

  • Website Mail
  • Website Module for Mail


website_partner

  • Website Partner
  • Partner Module for Website


web_view_editor

  • View Editor


calendar

  • Calendar
  • Personal & Shared Calendar


========================================


STEP 4 MODULES TO ENHANCE WEBSEITE can be done in parallel on different groups

4.1 =======================================


Blogs Modul wake up WordPress the car behind you will soon be in fornt of you!


website_blog

  • Blogs
  • News, Blogs, Announces, Discussions

new things like multiple authors, multiple blogs, all the stuff needed for great blogging platforms could start right the way. Cloudplatforms could be build which provide this functionality and which will help to raise more money.


To the OCA - read how Kuali Business Modell is and follow that and try to get Fabien and his company to be a MEMBER - and jobs will be secured for everyone.

=======================================


4.2 =======================================


Online Events Modul news people usually have events so get this be done to.


website_events

  • Online Events
  • Schedule, Promote and Sell Events


event

  • Events Organisation
  • Trainings, Conferences, Meetings, Exhibitions, Registrations


======================================

4.3 ======================================


e-Commerce Module NGOs Comanies etc they all need to raise money usually by presenting things on their website - get tis done and Shopware - the new star in Germany who already has beating IMHO the former star OXID e-Sales and simply forget about Magento - it is sloooooow and has still not what a real shop needs i.e. the possibility to get a POS working , to book tables , cars etc.


website_sales

  • eCommerce
  • Sell your Products Online


sale

  • Sales Management
  • Quotations, Sales Orders, Invoiving


account

  • Invoicing
  • Send Invoices and Track Payments


account_bank_statement_import

  • Account Bank Statement Import


analytic

  • Analytic Accounting


decimal_precision

  • Decimal Precision Configuration


event_sale

  • Events Sales


payment

  • Payment Aquirer
  • Payment Aquirer Base Module


payment_transfer

  • Transfer Payment Acquirer
  • Payment Acquirer: Transfer Implementation


portal_sale

  • Porlat Sale


procurement

  • Procurements


product

  • Products & Priceless


rating

  • Customer Rating


sale_crm

  • Opportunity to Quotation
==================================

4.4 ========================================


Slides Module not only churches, mosques etc. and NGO organisations need an easy way to present their preaching to the public

get things done and webempower all those - Have a look to archive.org at webempoeredchurch.org - This initiative brought TYPO3 with its great TemplaVoila Templating System really up until 2010 when to much business and money orientation overcame the TYPO3 leadership.

The webempoweredchurch Organisation is meanwhile history but all their churches are not. By the way this TYPO3 Package has been used also by many Mosques and Synagoges and normal companies etc because it was so easy to install and to handle.


website_slides

  • Slides
  • Share and Publish Videos, Presentations and Documents


========================================


Than add all the POS stuff and Marketing stuff

====

after that is done think about starting with Accounting - etc. 

You could actually start right the way after the base had been converted to Version 3 in getting also those modules running in ODOO3 but keep in mind that all those Backend Modules are NOT visible for people and therefore they won't create much income at first place which would be needed for all those who are willing to help top get a full fledged ODOO3 be born as soon as possible.

IMHO the website Builder will the best resource for financial aid for all of us here.

Existing customers will still be using their old ODOO 2.7 for the next 5 years and new customers should be our focus thow!

=====================================

Now go and grab the domains haha!

No come on please set up the project on OCA - yes get the ODOO3 domain for OCA if you like it and than start putting all the effort together instead of trying here and there and of course invite Fabien to join the effort with his marvelous team. Follow the wise quotes of Fabien and take over the Lead and design the Roadmap for ODOO3 to make it happen. Don't wait until Odoo S.A. will announce perhaps: Hi we are now Python3 - simply forget about all your modules for the next years as we won't support Odoo 9 which is Version 2.7 no more.

Start now!

And please cut out at first place ALL modules which are not needed to get things done - Simply make ODOO3 a lean ODOO which is the Base and the Website Builder (so that people can simply use it as website builder) and don't need to install all other modules. And don't even integrate them anymore in ODOO3 by default. Instead make them available as custom modules people can choose from. I recommend that all ODOO3 modules will get maintained either on a new to build ODOO3 git platform under the umbrella of the OCA or the OCA git itself.

Let' get your feedbacks!

Feedback is needed from OCA if they like to get ODOO3 under OCA or not. If not I would suggest that all those commented here will get together and build that platform and promote that platform.

Feedback is needed from odoo S.A.. If they are willing to join that effort and also if they are willing to fund a bit the effort in converting the core to Python3 and making ODOO3 happen.

Feedback is also needed from the Community if there are perhaps companies interested already to bring ODOO computing to a new level with ODOO3. ODOO3 will for sure be a great tool for cloud providers due to its website builder features and in combination with http://www.goclouder.net:41020 actually everyone could help to spread the word to all your existing communites. Who is willing to fund that effort.

Does anybody has experience in setting up a crowd funding campaign on indegogo - let's do it and get funding for ODOO3 so that people spending time on that effort can get refunded for that effort too. I guess some, perhaps even a lot of converting stuff could be outsourced in cooperation with other indiegogo campaigns and perhaps even google themselves - let's get women more involved! 

...

Andi




With kind regards,
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Con un cordial saludo,
Cordialement,
с сердечным приветом,
เรื่องที่เกี่ยวกับชนิด,
與親切的問候,

 ANDI BECKER

CEO/General Manager LisAndi Co., Ltd.

--------------------------------------------------

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15/21 M.2 Viset Road, Rawai, Muang, Phuket, Thailand 83130

Mobile: +66 (0)81 606 3378
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On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Luis Felipe Miléo <mileo@kmee.com.br> wrote:
One of many reasons to migrate to python 3.5 is AsyncIO


- Luis Felipe Miléo
Gerência de Implementação
+55 21 4063-8872 (RJ)
Parceiro oficial:
  


De: "Houssine BAKKALI" <houssine.bakkali@gmail.com>
Para: "Followers of Community" <community@mail.odoo.com>
Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 13 de novembro de 2015 12:47:49
Assunto: Re: Odoo / Python 3
Zahid,

2020 is in four years... it let Odoo SA and community the time to think about without hurry...

note sure this matter has something related to Tryton...

2015-11-13 14:17 GMT+01:00 zahid jalal <j.zahid@gmail.com>:
@Hossine :
The hole picture here is 2020 EOL of python 2.7. 
I think that one reason that there is no initiative to go python 3 is Tryton. When openerp was forked, Tryton guys choose to go py3 for the project. The base code is well structured and cleaner than Odoo.  But tryton is ugly (no fancy web), and lacks of important fonctionnalities. but it is also fully GPL and includes a migration mechanism (no upgrade fees).
If one day Odoo goes py3. Tryton can rapidly gain some missing fonctionnalties and gains market share  ==> it's FP's nigtmare ( i am sorry for that , but it's just an opinion ).

rgrds 


Integrateur Odoo , Data intégration
BI and IT consulting.

j.zahid@auriumtechnologies.com
tél  0661360233 - 0636898882
fax 0528215738

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Houssine BAKKALI <houssine.bakkali@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Zahid,

You have to take the whole picture then. And ask the question : what would be the benefits of porting to 3.x to justify that you'll put 20 to 30 people for 6 months at least on this job and think that you'll need to stabalize it so and some months on top of that which is a huge task in final.

What about backward compatibility? And as said Graeme new version of 2.7 is going to be released next month with improvement on performance...

And i don't say that it hasn't to be done but to evaluate the main benefits and then so see if it's worse to dig in it or not...

2015-11-13 11:37 GMT+01:00 zahid jalal <j.zahid@gmail.com>:
Hi all
Please guys. This is meant to be serious. ( so please stop feeding the troll).
On important thing about this topic is official Odoo SA position about python 3. Why we don't hear from them ?
IMHO :  Something is going on inside R&D departement at Odoo SA. Next move will be when releasing V10 (entreprise+closed core+ another licence change+ python 3) and  V10 community in python2.7  as there is some backward compatibility.
I did sone gross stats. core code is xml+python+js. python portion of code is less than half in total. Migrating to python 3 can be done by 20 to 30 developpers within 6 to 7 mounths.   
I hope i am wrong about this. But unless we have a response from Odoo S.A. Our concern and doubts are legitimate.

Regards



SSLL, Intégrateur Odoo.
Intégration de Services.
BI and IT consulting.
j.zahid@auriumtechnologies.com
tél  0661360233 - 0636898882
fax 0528215738

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Houssine BAKKALI <houssine.bakkali@gmail.com> wrote:
yeah for sure... any company running a business of hundred thousand of euros care about python 3.x more that have their employees performing their day to day operations which enable the company to make money in...

You talk about big NGOs, and you talk about going right now on Odoo9 which still unstable for now... This is madness..

So try to fix your  "Website Edit Button not working for Website Editors" problem and then maybe you'll maybe get some credit... until now this is just trolling and hijacking mailing list...

2015-11-13 3:22 GMT+01:00 Andreas Becker <andi@lisandi.com>:
@Houssine
When you start working on projects the size we do since over ten years and for customers which are world wide recognised NGO Organisations, Companies and Universities, than your point of view probably changes a lot. If you are talking about the small shop around the corner you are probably right. They simply have no time and no resources, as they are mostly run by their owners themselves and they really don't care as long as it is running and not breaking down - you are right at that point.

Universities and NGO Organisations have one in common. They don't like so much the use of proprietary things and like to stick more and more to Free Open Source Software Products released under GPLv.2,, GPLv.3 or AGPLv.3 - They are not so willing to get involved in LGPL stuff due to the reasons already mentioned many times.

But much more important is that they would need to run a system which gets maintained on state of the art software and not outdated versions far beyond 2020. Have a look what the needs are of many of those organisations. On the one hand side they need to maintain the website portal with lots of new articles and have spaces where they can represent their projects. Easily you will have sites with much more than 5000 Pages, over 15.000 content elements and perhaps more than 25.000 Digital assets to be managed and not to forget the authors which could be i.e. about 500 not counted the dependencies they have all around the world.

For their internal Project management, for their Human resource management etc all the stuff Odoo has actually already available, those people are using not seldom multiple products which can't even communicate properly with each other and interfaces need to get programmed and maintained etc. It is very costly. To reduce those costs it would be great to have only one centralised system which can be run for all those instances world wide. ODO actually has now since it has the website builder, everything they would need. 

BUT and this I write in capital letters as it is a big but. Unfortunately the license has changed to be LGPLv.3 and this makes many of them very sceptical on what the future of Odoo would be!

Right now many of them try to centralise their efforts to one system and to one space. Many of them are using for their websites TYPO3, and others Drupal and some even try to grow up Drupal to be getting something like ODOO. All those systems they can maintain from one single spot in the world, they are multi domain, multisite capable and multi tenant capable and of course they are multilingual (Drupal 8 is the best example for that point as this was very important to keep up with those customers). ODOO has already all those features. it is multi-domain, multi site, multi database, multi core and multi language  capable and it is much easier actually to get backups than from any of the other systems. It is very easy to maintain and easily to extend.

Even they are huge organisations they often work mainly with their internal staff which needs to maintain the infrastructure and the sites. They need training again and again and they also need services - this is why they sometimes externals like us to do exactly that.

Right now all of those - also those universities and school organisations are NOT using Odoo but Odoo would be an ideal platform for them in many cases. But have a look to Kuali ERP, Kuali ERP is not a mobile app by the way. You probably have never heard of it before but simply have a look also to their business model and why they are using AGPL! And most important why the use of AGPL brings them those bigger customers which could be very easily also customers for Odoo if the License would have not been changed again.

All those organisations are NOT living in the past but when they intend to change to another system they are looking in a very long future and this future means 10 and more years. i.e. East West Center was TYPO3 for many many years and than they converted their site to Drupal in 2010 as TYPO3 was changing over and over again with each new update at that time - by the way today the new Version 7 has been relaunched which will be also a new beginning! Here it was the community!!! which was standing up and simply started as Community to take action against some others who tried to make things less looking for the needs of the projects which community members had. Quite similar to what is happening right now here at ODOO.

Anyway, or take as another example UNESCO which was running on even two CMS Systems and multiple Systems to maintain all their other needs. Until 2007 they had simply the need to have two CMS systems as one was proprietary but could not write arabic and other let's say "utf8 languages". This was the reason on developer of them decided to get involved with TYPO3. In 2009 they decided to put all instances centralised where possible to Paris and of course based on TYPO3 - and still using multiple other products for all their other needs. Since they are using TYPO3 and the other one is using Drupal they actually have absolute no intention to switch back again to an proprietary system I guess. They actually promote the use of Free Open Source Products on many occasions and even on CDs and DVDs and downloads etc.

To change those kind of customers to something more mature and much better suited to their over all needs, than you need a product which will be available for at least the next 10 years and this is not the case with ODOO when the Python 2.7 libraries get no more maintained and they are already like said - outdated and no more state of the art.

So if you are viewing the past you are absolutely right, keep them on 2.7 until they die and probably you with them as with one simple "bum" your revenue will be gone. But if you are looking to discover new markets and get new customers your point of view should be just the opposite of what you just wrote.

If you start right now and convert ODOO to Python v.3 you could have a very stable product already in 2017 which gives you and your customers enough time to get things done, which means trainings, modules, themes - also this takes time after the core had been converted to Python v.3.4 and later

We are focussing on the future and not living in the past!

You won't get any of those kind of customers with Odoo as long as it is using a library which is already outdated and beside that not even gets maintained anymore in 3-4 years!!! and many parts of it already don't get properly maintained anymore right now.

I really recommend setting up an ODOO AGPL Branch without all those modules and start converting the core to Python v.3 in a Community effort. I am pretty sure that as soon as that branch would be available people from the community would start contributing to it The AGPL Licensed OCA-ODOO base on Python3 could than and will be for sure the base for all future community developments which will focus on projects in the next decade and in parallel the outdated ODOO 9 Python 2.7 Branch or even the than in future outdated ODOO 10 Python 2.7 Branch could still be used for all projects from the past!

As an inspiration the TYPO3 7 Movie


The OCA could do exactly the same and get things done instead of waiting until big boss is changing licenses again and again!

regards

Andi




With kind regards,
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Con un cordial saludo,
Cordialement,
с сердечным приветом,
เรื่องที่เกี่ยวกับชนิด,
與親切的問候,

<html><div> 

</div><div> ANDI BECKER

CEO/General Manager LisAndi Co., Ltd.

about.me/andibecker</div></html>
--------------------------------------------------

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15/21 M.2 Viset Road, Rawai, Muang, Phuket, Thailand 83130

VoIP:   +49 (0)711 50 88788 50
Fax:     +49 (0)711 50 88788 50
Skype:          lisandi
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This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email by mistake), please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly prohibited. Email transmission security and error-free status cannot be guaranteed as information could be intercepted, corrupted, destroyed, delayed, incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of email transmission

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Houssine BAKKALI <houssine.bakkali@gmail.com> wrote:
the pills part wasn't for you... but for someone a bit excited in several threads...

Never got this problem on prod env for standard installation... maybe some lib aren't maintened anymore but most of them are... Just keep in mind that most of odoo modules still coded in the old api and that lot of still delcaring model through osv.osv

Odoo SA planned to rewrite all modules to the new api for version 10... they previously aimed 9 and they did not did it... So python 3 is a big step and the release date for 10 is around october 2016. They clearly have to made a choice and for a limited added value job that could not just be in the Entreprise version, I doubt that they will put python 3.x as a priority because even Odoo SA has limited ressources...

I may be wrong or not...

2015-11-12 15:07 GMT+01:00 zahid jalal <j.zahid@gmail.com>:
Customers are not early adopters, they just need a tool, and Odoo in one of many they use, to run their business. Customers doesn't car about python 2.7 or 3.4 so as far 2.7 is maintained it's ok to stick with it as 2020 is in four years. Their are other big important step before the absolute need of python 3.x

So keep calm and take your pills ;)


Ok, i'll remind you to keep calm by then. When you try to install a module or even the server itself in a prod environment, and some buggy py2.7 lib you depend on is not maintained any more. 
It is stated clearly from python maintainers that "standard library improvements, for example, are only available by default in Python 3.x. "
It's time to move on.

regards

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