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Re: Odoo / Python 3

by
Eric Caudal
- 11/16/2015 05:54:56

Still would be very interested with odoo sa official standpoint


On Mon, Nov 16, 2015, 18:36 Stéphane Wirtel <stephane+odoocommunity@wirtel.be> wrote:
You can start with this document: 
http://python3porting.com/strategies.html

Regards,

Stéphane
On 16 Nov 2015, at 11:12, zahid jalal wrote:

> Hi folks.
> This thread is open of  a week. And I just can't understand why we 
> don't hear from Odoo S.A about this.
> Their silence  does not bode  good  things.    It  is not possible  
> that they did not  discuss  py2.7 EOL  internally. Every python 
> developer is aware of it, they are not an excpetion.
> I wont be surprised , if v10 or v11 core goes py3 and closed as well 
> for entrprise edition.
> IMHO,  Odoo community should take action right now, at least let's 
> start writing a road map to migration to py3.  Sustainability  of Odoo 
> as openesource  software depends on  it.
> regards
> * O doo Integrator,
> Data integration
> * *BI and IT consulting.*
> j.zahid@auriumtechnologies.com [1]
> tél  0661360233 - 0636898882
> fax 0528215738
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Dave Ellison < dave.e@time-tele.com 
> [2] > wrote:
> "Python 2.7 is not going anywhere anytime soon."
>
> That's what worries me about the Python community. Coming from a
> recent convert from other languages. My experience for learning
> Python was mixed. Some recent material online is still teaching 2.7
> and some have now moved to 3.x or their software is now using 3.x.
> Which means learning can be a pain. Yes I am aware moving from 2.7
> to 3.x isn't too bad, but for people learning it can be a royal
> pain.
>
> Although for different reasons, lack of movement killed Perl. I am
> not saying Python  will go that way, but the slow movement to 3.x
> will put people off.
>
> Thanks
> Dave
>
>
> On 13/11/15 18:03, Luke Branch wrote:
>
> 
cite=" mid:3836284C-F4A2-4DEF-BF32-B45F6DB5B6AF@gmail.com [3] " > type="cite"> > Hi Zahid, > > On an unrelated note, you wouldn't happen to have a link to > that tool by any chance would you? > > I think the reverse could also be true and some useful > modules could be explored from the Tryton project for Odoo, > particularly some of the integrations/connectors. > > Regarding Python 3, I'm sure Odoo SA have a game plan and > timeline in mind. Python 2.7 is not going anywhere anytime soon. > > I believe the number of Python libraries written in 2.7 still > far exceeds  those that have been written in 3+. Perhaps it > makes more sense to stick with 2.7 for this and many other > reasons so that they keep their options open in terms of > libraries they and the community can easily integrate into their > projects. > > Here's a few links that might interest you: > > https://www.odoo.com/forum/help-1/question/9-0-master-will-odoo-be-able-to-support-python-3-0-in-master-9-0-70469 > [4] > > http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/102999/should-we-use-python-2-6-or-2-7-or-3-x > [5] > > https://docs.python.org/2/library/2to3.html [6] > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 14 Nov 2015, at 1:03 AM, zahid jalal < None [7] j.zahid@gmail.com > [8] > > wrote: > > > > > @houssine 4 years is tomorrow in IT industry. > > About Tryton, just think about it. if Odoo goes py3, what > will stop Trytoners from borrowing some code from Odoo. I > saw sometime ago a tool (ETL like) to convert openerp DB > to tryton. so why not. > > 2020 is tomorrow, let's hurry. :) > rgrds > > > > > > > > * O doo > Integrator, > Data integration > * > *BI and IT consulting.* > > > j.zahid@auriumtechnologies.com [9] > tél  0661360233 - 0636898882 > > fax 0528215738 > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 2:47 PM, > Houssine BAKKALI < None [10] houssine.bakkali@gmail.com [11] > > wrote: > > > Zahid, > > > 2020 is in four years... it let Odoo SA and > community the time to think about without hurry... > > > note sure this matter has something related to > Tryton... > > > 2015-11-13 > 14:17 GMT+01:00 zahid jalal < None [12] j.zahid@gmail.com [13] > : > > > > @Hossine : > > The hole picture here is 2020 EOL of > python 2.7. > > I think that one reason that there is no > initiative to go python 3 is Tryton. When > openerp was forked, Tryton guys choose to go > py3 for the project. The base code is well > structured and cleaner than Odoo.  But > tryton is ugly (no fancy web), and lacks of > important fonctionnalities. but it is also > fully GPL and includes a migration mechanism > (no upgrade fees). > If one day Odoo goes py3. Tryton can rapidly > gain some missing fonctionnalties and gains > market share  ==> it's FP's nigtmare ( i > am sorry for that , but it's just an opinion > ). > > > rgrds > > > > > > > *Integrateur O doo , Data intégration > * > *BI and IT consulting.* > > > None [14] j.zahid@auriumtechnologies.com [15] > tél  0661360233 - 0636898882 > > fax 0528215738 > > > > > > On > Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Houssine > BAKKALI < None [16] houssine.bakkali@gmail.com [17] > > wrote: > > > Hi Zahid, > > > You have to take the whole picture > then. And ask the question : what > would be the benefits of porting to > 3.x to justify that you'll put 20 to > 30 people for 6 months at least on > this job and think that you'll need > to stabalize it so and some months > on top of that which is a huge task > in final. > > What about backward compatibility? > And as said Graeme new version of > 2.7 is going to be released next > month with improvement on > performance... > > > And i don't say that it hasn't to > be done but to evaluate the main > benefits and then so see if it's > worse to dig in it or not... > > > > 2015-11-13 > 11:37 GMT+01:00 zahid jalal < None [18] j.zahid@gmail.com [19] > : > > > > > Hi all > > Please guys. This is > meant to be serious. > ( so please stop > feeding the troll). > > On important thing > about this topic is > official Odoo SA > position about python > 3. Why we don't hear > from them ? > > IMHO :  Something is > going on inside R&D > departement at Odoo SA. > Next move will be when > releasing V10 > (entreprise+closed core+ > another licence change+ > python 3) and  V10 > community in python2.7 > as there is some > backward compatibility. > > I did sone gross stats. > core code is > xml+python+js. python > portion of code is less > than half in total. > Migrating to python 3 can > be done by 20 to 30 > developpers within 6 to 7 > mounths. > > I hope i am wrong about > this. But unless we have a > response from Odoo S.A. Our > concern and doubts are > legitimate. > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > *SSLL, > Intégrateur > Odoo. > * > *Intégration > de Services. > * > *BI and IT > consulting.* > > None [20] j.zahid@auriumtechnologies.com [21] > tél  0661360233 - > 0636898882 > > fax 0528215738 > > None [22] www.auriumtechnologies.com [23] > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 13, > 2015 at 10:18 AM, > Houssine BAKKALI < None [24] houssine.bakkali@gmail.com [25] > > wrote: > > > > > > > yeah for > sure... any > company > running a > business of > hundred > thousand of > euros care > about python > 3.x more that > have their > employees > performing > their day to > day operations > which enable > the company to > make money > in... > > > You talk about > big NGOs, and > you talk about > going right > now on Odoo9 > which still > unstable for > now... This is > madness.. > > > So try to fix > your  "Website > Edit Button > not working > for Website > Editors" > problem and > then maybe > you'll maybe > get some > credit... > until now this > is just > trolling and > hijacking > mailing > list... > > > > > > > > 2015-11-13 > 3:22 GMT+01:00 > Andreas Becker > < None [26] andi@lisandi.com [27] > : > > > > > > @Houssine > When you > start working > on projects > the size we do > since over ten > years and for > customers > which are > world wide > recognised NGO > Organisations, > Companies and > Universities, > than your > point of view > probably > changes a lot. > If you are > talking about > the small shop > around the > corner you are > probably > right. They > simply have no > time and no > resources, as > they are > mostly run by > their owners > themselves and > they really > don't care as > long as it is > running and > not breaking > down - you are > right at that > point. > > Universities > and NGO > Organisations > have one in > common. They > don't like so > much the use > of proprietary > things and > like to stick > more and more > to Free Open > Source > Software > Products > released under > GPLv.2,, > GPLv.3 or > AGPLv.3 - They > are not so > willing to get > involved in > LGPL stuff due > to the reasons > already > mentioned many > times. > > But much > more important > is that they > would need to > run a system > which gets > maintained on > state of the > art software > and not > outdated > versions far > beyond 2020. > Have a look > what the needs > are of many of > those > organisations. > On the one > hand side they > need to > maintain the > website portal > with lots of > new articles > and have > spaces where > they can > represent > their > projects. > Easily you > will have > sites with > much more than > 5000 Pages, > over 15.000 > content > elements and > perhaps more > than 25.000 > Digital assets > to be managed > and not to > forget the > authors which > could be i.e. > about 500 not > counted the > dependencies > they have all > around the > world. > > For their > internal > Project > management, > for their > Human resource > management etc > all the stuff > Odoo has > actually > already > available, > those people > are using not > seldom > multiple > products which > can't even > communicate > properly with > each other and > interfaces > need to get > programmed and > maintained > etc. It is > very costly. > To reduce > those costs it > would be great > to have only > one > centralised > system which > can be run for > all those > instances > world wide. > ODO actually > has now since > it has the > website > builder, > everything > they would > need. > > BUT and > this I write > in capital > letters as it > is a big but. > Unfortunately > the license > has changed to > be LGPLv.3 and > this makes > many of them > very sceptical > on what the > future of Odoo > would be! > > Right now > many of them > try to > centralise > their efforts > to one system > and to one > space. Many of > them are using > for their > websites > TYPO3, and > others Drupal > and some even > try to grow up > Drupal to be > getting > something like > ODOO. All > those systems > they can > maintain from > one single > spot in the > world, they > are multi > domain, > multisite > capable and > multi tenant > capable and of > course they > are > multilingual > (Drupal 8 is > the best > example for > that point as > this was very > important to > keep up with > those > customers). > ODOO has > already all > those > features. it > is > multi-domain, > multi site, > multi > database, > multi core and > multi language > capable and > it is much > easier > actually to > get backups > than from any > of the other > systems. It is > very easy to > maintain and > easily to > extend. > > Even they > are huge > organisations > they often > work mainly > with their > internal staff > which needs to > maintain the > infrastructure > and the sites. > They need > training again > and again and > they also need > services - > this is why > they sometimes > externals like > us to do > exactly that. > > Right now > all of those - > also those > universities > and school > organisations > are NOT using > Odoo but Odoo > would be an > ideal platform > for them in > many cases. > But have a > look to Kuali > ERP, Kuali ERP > is not a > mobile app by > the way. You > probably have > never heard of > it before but > simply have a > look also to > their business > model and why > they are using > AGPL! And most > important why > the use of > AGPL brings > them those > bigger > customers > which could be > very easily > also customers > for Odoo if > the License > would have not > been changed > again. > > All those > organisations > are NOT living > in the past > but when they > intend to > change to > another system > they are > looking in a > very long > future and > this future > means 10 and > more years. > i.e. East West > Center was > TYPO3 for many > many years and > than they > converted > their site to > Drupal in 2010 > as TYPO3 was > changing over > and over again > with each new > update at that > time - by the > way today the > new Version 7 > has been > relaunched > which will be > also a new > beginning! > Here it was > the > community!!! > which was > standing up > and simply > started as > Community to > take action > against some > others who > tried to make > things less > looking for > the needs of > the projects > which > community > members had. > Quite similar > to what is > happening > right now here > at ODOO. > > Anyway, > or take as > another > example UNESCO > which was > running on > even two CMS > Systems and > multiple > Systems to > maintain all > their other > needs. Until > 2007 they had > simply the > need to have > two CMS > systems as one > was > proprietary > but could not > write arabic > and other > let's say > "utf8 > languages". > This was the > reason on > developer of > them decided > to get > involved with > TYPO3. In 2009 > they decided > to put all > instances > centralised > where possible > to Paris and > of course > based on TYPO3 > - and still > using multiple > other products > for all their > other needs. > Since they are > using TYPO3 > and the other > one is using > Drupal they > actually have > absolute no > intention to > switch back > again to an > proprietary > system I > guess. They > actually > promote the > use of Free > Open Source > Products on > many occasions > and even on > CDs and DVDs > and downloads > etc. > > To change > those kind of > customers to > something more > mature and > much better > suited to > their over all > needs, than > you need a > product which > will be > available for > at least the > next 10 years > and this is > not the case > with ODOO when > the Python 2.7 > libraries get > no more > maintained and > they are > already like > said - > outdated and > no more state > of the art. > > So if you > are viewing > the past you > are absolutely > right, keep > them on 2.7 > until they die > and probably > you with them > as with one > simple "bum" > your revenue > will be gone. > But if you are > looking to > discover new > markets and > get new > customers your > point of view > should be just > the opposite > of what you > just wrote. > > If you > start right > now and > convert ODOO > to Python v.3 > you could have > a very stable > product > already in > 2017 which > gives you and > your customers > enough time to > get things > done, which > means > trainings, > modules, > themes - also > this takes > time after the > core had been > converted to > Python v.3.4 > and later > > We are > focussing on > the future and > not living in > the past! > > You won't > get any of > those kind of > customers with > Odoo as long > as it is using > a library > which is > already > outdated and > beside that > not even gets > maintained > anymore in 3-4 > years!!! and > many parts of > it already > don't get > properly > maintained > anymore right > now. > > I really > recommend > setting up an > ODOO AGPL > Branch without > all those > modules and > start > converting the > core to Python > v.3 in a > Community > effort. I am > pretty sure > that as soon > as that branch > would be > available > people from > the community > would start > contributing > to it The AGPL > Licensed > OCA-ODOO base > on Python3 > could than and > will be for > sure the base > for all future > community > developments > which will > focus on > projects in > the next > decade and in > parallel the > outdated ODOO > 9 Python 2.7 > Branch or even > the than in > future > outdated ODOO > 10 Python 2.7 > Branch could > still be used > for all > projects from > the past! > > As an > inspiration > the TYPO3 7 > Movie > > None [28] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJjpKzCVE4 [29] > > None [30] http://typo3.org/news/article/announcing-typo3-cms-7-lts/ > [31] > > > The OCA > could do > exactly the > same and get > things done > instead of > waiting until > big boss is > changing > licenses again > and again! > > regards > > Andi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With kind regards, > Mit freundlichen Grüßen, > Con > un cordial > saludo, > Cordialement, > с > сердечным > приветом, > เรื่องที่เกี่ยวกับชนิด, > 與親切的問候, >
>
 * ANDI BECKER * > > CEO/General > Manager > LisAndi Co., > Ltd. > > about.me/andibecker [32]
> -------------------------------------------------- > * > *LisAndi > Co. Ltd.*, > Phuket, > Thailand ( lisandi.com [33] ) > > 15/21 > M.2 Viset > Road, Rawai, > Muang, Phuket, > Thailand 83130 > > > Mobile: > +66 > (0)81 606 3378 [34] > VoIP: > +49 (0)711 > 50 88788 50 > Fax: > +49 (0)711 > 50 88788 50 > Skype: > lisandi > Facebook: > andibecker > Google > Talk/Facetime/eMail: > None [35] andi@lisandi.com [36] > -------------------------------------------------- > This > email may > contain > confidential > and/or > privileged > information. > If you are not > the intended > recipient (or > have received > this email by > mistake), > please notify > the sender > immediately > and destroy > this email. > Any > unauthorized > copying, > disclosure or > distribution > of the > material in > this email is > strictly > prohibited. > Email > transmission > security and > error-free > status cannot > be guaranteed > as information > could be > intercepted, > corrupted, > destroyed, > delayed, > incomplete, or > contain > viruses. The > sender > therefore does > not accept > liability for > any errors or > omissions in > the contents > of this > message which > may arise as a > result of > email > transmission > > > > > > > > > > > > On > Thu, Nov 12, > 2015 at 9:34 > PM, Houssine > BAKKALI < None [37] houssine.bakkali@gmail.com [38] > > wrote: > > > > > > > the pills > part wasn't > for you... but > for someone a > bit excited in > several > threads... > > > Never got this > problem on > prod env for > standard > installation... > maybe some lib > aren't > maintened > anymore but > most of them > are... Just > keep in mind > that most of > odoo modules > still coded in > the old api > and that lot > of still > delcaring > model through > osv.osv > > > Odoo SA > planned to > rewrite all > modules to the > new api for > version 10... > they > previously > aimed 9 and > they did not > did it... So > python 3 is a > big step and > the release > date for 10 is > around october > 2016. They > clearly have > to made a > choice and for > a limited > added value > job that could > not just be in > the Entreprise > version, I > doubt that > they will put > python 3.x as > a priority > because even > Odoo SA has > limited > ressources... > > I may be wrong > or not... > > > > > > > 2015-11-12 > 15:07 > GMT+01:00 > zahid jalal < None [39] j.zahid@gmail.com [40] > : > > > > > > Customers are not early adopters, they just > need a tool, > and Odoo in > one of many > they use, to > run their > business. > Customers > doesn't car > about python > 2.7 or 3.4 so > as far 2.7 is > maintained > it's ok to > stick with it > as 2020 is in > four years. > Their are > other big > important step > before the > absolute need > of python 3.x > > > So > keep calm and > take your > pills ;) > > > > > Ok, i'll > remind you to > keep calm by > then. When you > try to install > a module or > even the > server itself > in a prod > environment, > and some buggy > py2.7 lib you > depend on is > not maintained > any more. > > It is > stated clearly > from python > maintainers > that *"standard > library > improvements, > for example, > are only > available by > default in > Python 3.x. "* > > It's time > to move on. > > > regards > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: > None [41] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [42] > Post to: > mailto: None [43] community@mail.odoo.com [44] > Unsubscribe: None [45] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [46] > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: > None [47] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [48] > Post to: > mailto: None [49] community@mail.odoo.com [50] > Unsubscribe: None [51] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [52] > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: > None [53] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [54] > Post to: > mailto: None [55] community@mail.odoo.com [56] > Unsubscribe: None [57] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [58] > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: > None [59] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [60] > Post to: > mailto: None [61] community@mail.odoo.com [62] > Unsubscribe: None [63] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [64] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: None [65] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [66] > Post to: mailto: None [67] community@mail.odoo.com [68] > Unsubscribe: None [69] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [70] > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: None [71] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [72] > Post to: mailto: None [73] community@mail.odoo.com [74] > Unsubscribe: None [75] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [76] > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: None [77] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [78] > Post to: mailto: None [79] community@mail.odoo.com [80] > Unsubscribe: None [81] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [82] > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [83] > Post to: mailto: community@mail.odoo.com [84] > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [85] > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [86] > Post to: mailto:community@mail.odoo.com [87] > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [88] > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [89] > Post to: mailto:community@mail.odoo.com [90] > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [91] > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [92] > Post to: mailto: community@mail.odoo.com [93] > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [94] > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59
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Eric  Caudal (from my mobile)