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Re: Please confirm comments on v9 UI

by
Akretion, Raphael Valyi
- 06/09/2015 02:56:59
Hello,

sorry, I have no time to expand on this topic now, but as the issue was raised, I prefer to say it now. Let me say that because Odoo is full of the "dependency injection" pattern in the core ORM methods that dynamically load any module override present, I'm REALLY dubious that some proprietary module indirectly using features from an installed AGPL module wouldn't be violating the AGPL license of this later, even without having a formal dependency on it. I'll dive into this another day. I'm not a lawyer, I'm not telling the combo is plain illegal, but I'm telling I have some strong suspicion this is not as simple as it's being told, especially because of this dependency injection feature that gives Odoo its power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_injection
An other element about the *GPL covering combined work even without dependencies:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.en.html#GPLPluginsInNF

I'll provide a specific example another day but think about it. And remember, I found the res_partner glitch in the v7 ;-p

As for the move toward proprietary itself, well I have been loudly whistleblowing like for years now this is how it would end up when VC money was raised and spent the way it was raised and spent (and this after strongly encouraging the project in the early phase before stepping into this spiral), so it's not a surprise for me sadly. We will deal with it, that's fine.

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 3:31 AM, Ermin Trevisan <trevi@twanda.com> wrote:

But the new UI is enterprise edition, and a UI always depends on the underlying module functionality according to my understanding, and so it is not allowed to develop an AGPL module with the proprietary new UI, and as a consequence, an enterprise user will not have the opportunity to use community modules with the new UI, because such modules are not allowed to exist. Therefore an enterprise user is allowed to use AGPL community modules only with the old UI and so he has to deal with 2 different UIs in one software which is for sure a show stopper.

On the other hand, only partners officially acknowledged by Odoo will be allowed to develop modules using the new UI and these modules must be at least LGPL, and what should be the incentive not to make them proprietary at all then, because they are only available to proprietary enterprise customers anyway? And after all, can such modules be called "community" anymore?

You are right, community developments and enterprise edition can be mixed from the legal perspective. But declaring a UI proprietary makes this legal possibility absolutely meaningless from a developer's or user's perspective and separates the open source ecosystem completely from the enterprise world.

Isn't it the only consequence for a viable community ecosystem to develop an own new UI in this case?

On 09.06.2015 02:29, Ray Carnes wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:557630c8.49e6ca0a.2fd8.ffffa95f@mx.google.com" type="cite">
>>A customer of the enterprise
edition will not be allowed to use a community module, which is not
licensed under LGPL, with the new UI

That isn't my understanding.

If I read correctly, Odoo has stated their legal position, shared by the OCA, is that Modules can be mixed in the Enterprise version.

BUT, an Enterprise module cannot 'depend' on an AGPL module. Depend her meaning via the manifest of the Enterprise module, because that would require sharing the source, which the Enterprise version won't permit to non paying users.

Ray.

From: Ermin Trevisan
Sent: ‎6/‎8/‎2015 4:39 PM
To: Community
Subject: Re: Please confirm comments on v9 UI

On 08.06.2015 16:12, OpenERP Master wrote:
> Thanks for posting a link to the google doc. It is interesting. I 
> still maintain my original comment, IMO, it is a serious offense to 
> have any difference in a user experience between versions. I would ask 
> anyone to provide another successful software package that has such a 
> setup where there is a different experience between versions. For me, 
> this is a breaking point, meaning, I won't offer it. I'm sorry, but I 
> put my foot down. 8.0 works great. Most well known developers have 
> just started releasing their code for 8.0, haven't even thought about 
> 9. That is a mile away.

Please correct me if my understanding is wrong. Let's have a look into 
the future: Besides the problem of the maintenance of 2 different UI's, 
I see a complete separation between Community version and Enterprise 
edition coming for legal licensing reason. A customer of the enterprise 
edition will not be allowed to use a community module, which is not 
licensed under LGPL, with the new UI. Nobody, except of Odoo and maybe 
official partners, is allowed to develop new modules with the new UI, so 
all community modules must stay with the old UI, so there will not be 
any community modules with the new UI anyway. Enterprise customers will 
be completely locked in if they are not willing to accept different UI's 
in one software. For me that sounds like a complete split.

This is really bad news and if I had seen that coming a year ago, I 
would have taken another decision.

-- 
twanda AG
Ermin Trevisan
Artherstrasse 19
CH-6318 Walchwil
T    +41 41 758 1515
M    +41 79 208 7373
E    trevi@twanda.com
www.twanda.ch
www.ipadweinkarte.twanda.ch

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-- 
twanda AG
Ermin Trevisan
Artherstrasse 19
CH-6318 Walchwil 
T    +41 41 758 1515
M    +41 79 208 7373
E    trevi@twanda.com 
www.twanda.ch
www.ipadweinkarte.twanda.ch

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Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59
Post to: mailto:community@mail.odoo.com
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--
Raphaël Valyi
Founder and consultant
+55 21 3942-2434