Community mailing list archives
Re: Odoo v9 Community and Enterprise editionsby
Den 2015-06-03 07:21, Raphaël Valyi skrev:
Isn't it to let dozens of the best developers invest to build hundreds of modules for free during 6 years of AGPL, build dozens of localizations with a very hard business model they had to adapt and then not play by the same rules once the market is mature thanks to their work and their customers indirectly giving 80% of Odoo SA revenues?
So you would enter a soccer game and decide at mid-time that it's "tyrannic" you cannot just walk with the ball in your hands, so you start running to the goal with the ball in your hands and claim it's fair. It's not that different... Isn't the tyranny to force the others to play by rules you don't accept yourself and still try to take advantage of their work?
Isn't the tyranny rather about the users who will be trapped with proprietary modules while OpenERP had the unique advantage of warranting a user he had all the source code? If some users don't care about open source and if they want a proprietary application with fancy graphics, they already have plenty of choice right? So why corrupt what makes the uniqueness of Odoo under the claim it's for the users who in fact are just the innocent victims around who are not understanding what is going on?
This will just fail and we don't want to fail along with it. May be Odoo SA can afford to fail, but we cannot.
We just don't switch the license for the modules we did and we need this to be enforced, just like other OCA or any community contributors. We don't accept investor pressure for this, we think these pressure ARE the tyranny.
the OCA is the living proof AGPL can build much more quality than code obfuscation. OpenERP was the living proof an AGPL ERP is very attractive to the market even if may be not to everybody. We don't think selling un-obsucated Python code for and ERP requiring tons of customization is any sustainable model in 2015. If it's about having a service market, let's have a webservice Market compatibel with the AGPL codebase, just like when you use an email provider or a banking service. You can develop quality business without having to throw the baby with the water of the bath. API subscription plans for such services is way more serious than selling broken source code for every button that will be ripped of in all sort of jungle mess, totally destroy the ERP image and drive out any serious community from this appstore, just like people are dropping Sourceforge if you like.
Raphael, as I see you arguing fiercly, I get the impression I did not understand some subtelties of the AGPL to LGPL change pronounced here: https://www.odoo.com/blog/odoo-news-5/post/adapting-our-open-source-license-245
Basically Odoo is making the free choice to change licensing on its IP (after the cleanup) in order to strengthen other kind of revenue models in the ecosystem. You mentioned the localization effort in Brasil, which would be protected then (as you choose to do so).This enables a whole lot of untapped energy in the ecosystem for cases where potential participants do not engage due to license tradeoffs in an environment where they draw different conclusions on porters five forces analysis as AGPL would permit.So in the end LGPL is less tyrannic and more free than AGPL, as it gives me the freedom to decide to not have to share my ip. (Think of applications in an industries, where a closed vertical module is part of a competitive advantage where thousands of jobs depend on?)Of course odoo want's to gain complete source IP ownership in order to be free to set license on the core, but i TRUST that they understand that in order to really not proliferate a fork, they must closely watch market dynamics all around the world. I highly appreciate your mentions of different market dynamics in the developing world. But from an odoo stanpoint its a matter of competitive dynamics not to give away influence in those markets by precluding the license for such kind of business models as you imply. Alternatives are always around, as be included a fork of the latest acceptable license.
That beeing said, I would dare to interprete the linked article as an individual authorization after section 5 c) (last sentence) of the AGPL for the part of the code (98%) that is also under complete Odoo IP. In this order of thoughts, you would be able to make use of an LGPL like construct on the 98% of codebase, if you where able to backport the filtering of the 2%. Is that correct interpretation?
OCA should also adopt a more free and less tyrannic LGPL license. The decisions to open source should not depend on the tyrannic assurance that anybody's future work (which is his own spent time) would have to do the same. In the end, and I think it has been discussed in this thread allutionally, this produces complexity, which at the moment and imho is a serious limitant to community engagement.
Awaiting your comments on where I might be wrong, Raphael.
Best, I hope I did not annoy you with my 2 cents.
El mar., 2 jun. 2015 a las 5:05, Nuria Arranz Velazquez (<email@example.com>) escribió:
Rohan, being patronising and calling people "children" will only add logs to the fire. It's hardly helpful.<blockquote cite="mid:COL128-W463B97454E675BF3B01632ECC90@phx.gbl" type="cite">
On 29/05/15 10:54, Rohan E wrote:
Children, the real solution would be to write up an Odoo license similar to LGPL and an OCA license similar to AGPL but without all the ambiguity and conflicts of interest. Would be cheaper than the loss of productivity caused by this endless debate and annual pre-Odoo gathering drama.
Subject: Re: Odoo v9 Community and Enterprise editions
Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 13:57:19 +0000
Hi Fakrudeen,<blockquote cite="mid:3D63BF04-79C0-49B2-95CF-70728E9A4451@gmail.com" type="cite">
While it is an issue, I don't see why shouldn't be reminded. And I don't feel that the community expressing their concerns is spreading the wrong message.
That we don't agree with all of them doesn't give us the right to write them off from the rest of the community.
In reality, much has been said. Some of it in anger, some of it in an attempt of reassurance, some of it in ignorance, but plenty of it in logical thinking. I don't presume to know better as to filter what needs to be kept and what to trash.
Of all the things I'm reading, I don't thing there is a wrong message being spread. The message is the right one: Odoo has changed, and people is very concerned.
On 20/05/15 13:38, Fakrudeen Abbaz wrote:
I have created this ether pad to summarise the discussions and agree its not full.its expected all will enter the their current views based on the understanding from different mails.And i am not against sending mails, but its spreading wrong message to all, moreover its a reminder of the issue too.
Thanks & RegardsFakrudeen Abbaz, ACMA - ERP ConsultantMobile: +97155 66 77 001, skype : fakrudeenabbazSales : 04 295 6615, Support : 04 295 8986
-- N. Arranz-Velazquez OpusVL Odoo Specialist Team (OOST) Product Owner OpusVL Drury House Drury Lane Rugby CV21 3DE T: 01788 298 450 W: www.opusvl.com_______________________________________________
-- N. Arranz-Velazquez OpusVL Odoo Specialist Team (OOST) Product Owner OpusVL Drury House Drury Lane Rugby CV21 3DE T: 01788 298 450 W: www.opusvl.com