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Re: "The way to iOdoo"

by
anders
- 05/15/2015 13:49:08
+1 Xavier

Good summarize and conclusion of the many  mails on this subject.

Regards

Anders Arod












Xavier Mallein skrev den 2015-05-15 14:17:
> As a community member, I carefully read all the emails and related 
> sources. May I share a resume of my understanding of the Odoo SA reasons 
> for the move from AGPL to LGPL and their strategy of developing Apps as 
> Odoo SA Proprietary Apps.
>
> 1/ Odoo SA is pretexting FAKE justifications to move to LGPL : the 
> benefits named in their blog post "adapting-our-open-source-license" and 
> linked spreadsheet are FAKE for an OpenSource advocate point of view, 
> and only serve the Odoo SA Goal. 
> (https://www.odoo.com/fr_FR/blog/odoo-news-5/post/adapting-our-open-source-license-245).
>
> 2/ In my point of view, the TRUE Odoo SA reasons and Goal are :
> - Odoo SA wants to accelerate their R&D to offer a Full ERP with 
> integrated CMS and E-Commerce (there is a lot to do in R&D for CMS and 
> E-commerce).
> - Odoo SA closed $10 Million in Funding to perform internal R&D and 
> marketing (and will need more funding)
> - Odoo SA doesn't want to give the whole source codes of their V9 Saas 
> Offer with greats CMS ans E-Commerce features, because they are afraid 
> about competitors being able to make same offer (based on same code) at 
> lower cost. Therefore, Odoo will developp all the coming greats features 
> of V9 as ODOO SA PROPRIETARY Apps. Doing this, competitors will not have 
> access to these Greats ODOO SA PROPRIETARY Apps, decreasing the risk of 
> competition and securing the Return On Investissement for 
> shareholders/Funders.
> - ODOO SA PROPRIETARY Apps will all be in the enterprise edition, and 
> the gap between Community and Enterprise edition will very important.
> - Enterprise Edition with ODOO SA PROPRIETARY Apps, requires to move the 
> core code from AGPL to LGPL license.
> - Odoo try to convince contributors to turn their AGPL modules into LGPL 
> and give (for free) to Odoo SA wich will include them into their 
> Enterprise Edition.
>
> 3/ In my point of view, the conclusion are :
> - The community will only be able to play/developp on community edition, 
> and will not be able to perform new modules or vertical offer (as OCA 
> did) from Enterprise Edition where all the great features will be.
> - Odoo SA thinks they can now continue the road alone with their 
> Proprietary Apps (without AGPL modules from the community) and make a 
> great proprietary software (developped internally)
> - Odoo SA will focus on the big market of Small Enterprises with Sass 
> Offer.
>
> 4/ What is the place of the community in this future if the community 
> wants to keep a strong community edition ?
> - Is the community able to reduce the gap between community and 
> enterprise edition, by redevelopping the proprietary apps as AGPL ? a 
> lot of work...
> - Is a community able to maintain a community edition, if Odoo close the 
> code of the enterprise edition ? Needs a strong 
> management/leadership/fondation...
> - What about the future of Vertical (as OCA did) ? is their still a 
> future for industry solution based on community edition ?
> - How to continue and secure a return of investissement for the 
> community point of view with a non fully opensource software ?
>
> This is a resume of my actual personnal understanding of the whole 
> situation, personnal point of view and questions I wanted to share.
>
> Xavier
>
> Le 15/05/2015 08:57, Anders Wallenquist a écrit :
> > Den 2015-05-14 21:47, Alberto Barrionuevo skrev:
> > > Historical contextualization: The LGPL is the most permissive license
> > > created by the FSF to allow to be mixed with closed code, when the AGPL
> > > is exactly the contrary, the less permissive one (so the one that better
> > > warranties the freedom of the code). The FSF does not recommend to use
> > > LGPL for generic code. It was intended mainly for libraries that need to
> > > be included into any kind of code, open and closed one. For generic code
> > > the FSF recommends GPL if it is not going to be served as cloud, and
> > > AGPL (Affero GPL) if it is going to be served as cloud.
> > >
> > > On this point you can understand why OCA is not interested in to release
> > > its modules as LGPL and was maintain them as only-AGPL. If they would
> > > move to the permissive LGPL the said big corporation (including
> > > Odoo,S.A.) may be able to develop and close their "Google Odoo" or
> > > "Microsoft Odoo" or "iOdoo" including in its features-for-free not only
> > > the Odoo S.A. code, but also all the 5.000 OCA modules.
> > >
> > > So with such a move any big player would be able to create a kind of
> > > closed-source monster cloud Odoo service with more functionality (the
> > > extension) than the current open Odoo.
> >
> > Exactly Odoo Enterprise will be a Google Docs wit absolutely no interest
> > for end users that want to extend and contribute to Odoo. Odoo community
> > will be weakened with out any "high end" modules (as Odoo SA thinks and
> > will be marketing). Odoo SA are digging a large hole and will be buried
> > in the swamp of licensed funded world with no return in sight.
> >
> > A fork at this time will create a Odoo Enterprise with the 260 original
> > modules + some new closed source modules and a fork with 5000 modules as
> > they are presented today. Odoo Enterprise cannot use any of the 5000
> > community built modules if they not relicence to LGPL or MIT. There is
> > absolutely no incitement for the common contributor to do that. Should
> > an end user that has done serious contributions to Odoo delibery move to
> > a crippled locked in version of the same system that they are using to day.
> >
> > As Odoo SA has weakened the ecosystem with their strange partner program
> > and not so transparent development, the fork has to build a new
> > leadership from ground up and start with new strategies for the product.
> >
> > I personaly don't understand how Odoo SA has the courage to make this
> > move out of the free software world without serious trying to preserve
> > the product and the ecosystem. With 5 % left (260 modules) there is not
> > many end user that can make the transition to Odoo Enterprise. If they
> > loose a large chunk of the community (it may not happen overnight but in
> > a year or two) and with them a lot of their old market and functionality
> > will varnish, competence  drains when their former integrators moves on
> > and follows their customers. In the licence funded world this happens
> > somtimes when the product owner want's a bigger share from thier
> > community and tries to take over end users from integrators. For
> > instance we have Jeeves doing this move in Sweden - Right know they have
> > only secured 25 % of their 2000 installations  (after one year) and they
> > have frightened their resellers in all other countries that they will do
> > this move there too which has led to a lot of lost affairs for the
> > mother company. Stupid move but initiated by decreased income from
> > licences (integrators build new modules of thier own instead of sell
> > Jeeves modules, we have some Jeeves installations where we adds
> > Odoo-functionality instead of buying Jeeves modules). But if they not
> > recognise the additions their integrator does for the whole ecosystem
> > this type of mistake is easy to do.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Anders Wallenquist
> >
> >
> > >
> > > As I understand Odoo,S.A. is not afraid of such a movement because it
> > > have done already such an extension of rich features with its upcoming
> > > closed apps in Odoo v9. So Odoo,S.A. has an advantage of 1 or 2 years on
> > > the competitive development race. But anyway I perceive the movement
> > > quite risky for Odoo,S.A. itself because there may be very much better
> > > funded corporations that may win such a development race on the
> > > medium/long term.
> > >
> > > Another interpretation may be that any/some important shareholder(s) or
> > > bondholder(s) of Odoo,S.A. is/are interested in to open the door to
> > > closed Odoo's removing the current AGPL protection to its code not for
> > > the final interest of Odoo,S.A. but others one (a kind of EEE strategy [1]).
> > >
> > > What I've described is not anything that never happened in the FLOSS
> > > history. It is exactly what Apple did doing with MacOS X, that is an
> > > extension of the permissively licensed Darwing (a BSD variant actually).
> > >
> > > Also it is similar to what Apple did for many years forking the LGPL'ed
> > > KHTML to core their Safari. Luckily, in this case, after many years of
> > > community requests, finally it was renamed and released under the open
> > > WebKit community and used by Safari (closed), Chromium (open), Chrome
> > > (closed), KDE Rekonq (open), Opera (closed) and many others.
> > >
> > > Regarding the possible EEE strategy of the shareholder(s) is more or
> > > less what Oracle actually did with many of the Sun Microsystem open
> > > source projects (OpenOffice, MySQL, OpenSolaris, etc.), forcing at the
> > > end to the community to fork all them and to create foundations as OCA
> > > to manage each one.
> > >
> > > [Disclaimer: End of simplifications]
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > //Alberto.
> > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
> > >
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