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Re: Odoo v9 Paid Apps

by
Alexandre Vandermeersch (av)
- 05/14/2015 17:20:38
We are seeking to keep, grow and empower the community. It's hard to tell now but IMO most of the contributions will be for the Odoo Community.  Odoo sa and its community will remain one of the strongest contributors to open source software, even with a subset of closed modules. I have no doubts about that. Yet it does imply a small trade off away from 100% open source for everything, which indeed is it even 'cleaner'  - and we do realize it's a trade off, this is why it's such a complicated decision. I think the market can cope with that, especially Odoo is certainly not the first open source company to go that route


Alexandre

Le 14-05-15 21:12, Joël Grand-Guillaume a écrit :
<blockquote cite="mid:CACk3wOLquFoNF_CNBPj7nHj+nyHZWyf9_tdCLOr14vrDGRVh+A@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">

I share the whole Anders point of view here... You should empower the community, reward the good one on a meritocracy basis. This is the way you can build a discruptive Open Source product. The current direction will frighten the market and will not improve the situation, all the contrary.


Le jeudi 14 mai 2015, Anders Wallenquist <anders.wallenquist@vertel.se> a écrit :
Alexandre,

It is disturbing that a company claiming to be committed to free 
software rely so little on their community that they need to hide the 
ongoing development and protect the high end modules with non free 
software licenses.

It is also disturbing that Odoo SA seems to divide the ecosystem. 
Successful development of an ecosystem tend to be based on meritocracy. 
Talented contributors receive credit and status for what they have 
achieved. This means that sustainable and robust structure is built up. 
Odoo SA has chosen a completely different strategy,  to borrow the 
partner concept from the world of the license-funded software. This 
world is alien to actively contribute to the product, they are used to 
paying a fee and then let it be. The fee determines the status the 
company receive in the the ecosystem. This means that Odoo SA builds an 
ecosystem of companies that never intended to contribute actively and 
completely overlooked the ecosystem as a resource. The fee is usually 
worth a fraction of good contributions, so unless the Odoo partner both 
contribute and payes the fee, Odoo has recruted the wrong partners and 
weakened the ecosystem and looses a lot of important contributions at 
the same time. The new divided ecosystem will focus on the weakest part 
and ditch the real traditional community.

The strange partner strategy is the first mistake Odoo SA does, license 
financed modules and closed code is the next step in the wrong 
direction. If Odoo SA is really serious about free software, it is this 
nonsense that must be addressed.

Regards,

Anders Wallenquist

Den 2015-05-12 16:07, Alexandre Vandermeersch skrev:
> Drupal is indeed a good example - even though their product would
> benefit from a solid re-engineering of the core, but  no one will
> assemble sufficient resources for such a  daunting task. For that you
> need a central publisher. But yes Acquia is doing very well selling
> proprietary modules that extend Drupal (not under GPL but proprietary
> licences  - selling under GPL is not sustainable as a business model).
> So we can have a thriving Odoo Community (aka Drupal) and a thriving
> Odoo Enterprise (aka Acquia, which is by the way one of the main
> contributors to Drupal).  This is NOT a 100% comparison - unlike Acquia
> we do not plan to focus on Odoo Enterprise mostly but balance the two.
> As far as I know  Acquia is a well entirely cloud-based with little
> external contributions. We plan to rely on partners contributions for
> both editions, and the broader community for the community edition. We
> think it's possible - yes.
>
> Alexandre
> ps: by the way I am not Putin but run the marketing for Odoo (which is
> not a troll) ;-)
>
>
> Le 12-05-15 14:21, Anders Wallenquist a écrit :
> > Den 2015-05-12 12:49, Alexandre Vandermeersch skrev:
> > > Let me  clarify a few things about those decisions:
> > >    1. It's about our ambition to have the best & most complete business
> > > management software in the world - and it's a must have
> > >     The size of the challenge is huge - a fully integrated product from
> > > CMS down to accounting, omnichannel (POS, Ecommerce, Salespeople).  For
> > > instance on ecommerce, we will need to have a different sets of apps ,
> > > themes to be competitive. And we think 'just' having connectors (eg with
> > > Magento) is not good enough and actually, doesn't work very well (we've
> > > tried).  In an 'omnichannel' world, where front & back are getting more
> > > integrated than ever, we simply have no choice than go that route.  For
> > > that great challenge we need a thriving open source community that
> > > contributes to great modules AND a funding system that provides some
> > > stability to a solid R&D staff AND a new community of developers/
> > > Designers who can thrive on Odoo without being integrators (ie relying
> > > mostly on apps revenues).
> > Have a look at Drupal.org, there are 30 000 modules and 2000 themes, all
> > GPL combined with a huge community > 2 miljon contributors and nearly 40
> > 000 that contributes to core. You don't fins any paid modules or themes
> > at Drupal.org but there are an industry worth MEUR living by paid themes
> > and modules (still GPL) and not beeing integrators.
> >
> > I think Fabien have the misunderstanding that its not possible to sell
> > modules under a free software licence. This misunderstanding will create
> > a swamp of licences that will certainly create huge barriers and
> > unwanted transaction costs when using Odoo. No one want's to hire a
> > business lawyer for each new Odoo-offer. There are no barriers with pure
> > free software licences through the whole system.
> >
> > >
> > > 2. It's about balancing the funding
> > > On that funding point, you might say that it's either for free or there
> > > is a lock in, and not everyone likes that. Yes, we will be moving the
> > > cursor a little because we think companies that can afford it should be
> > > paying a small amount for extended, advanced apps that required a
> > > significant investment on our side.  But it's not a lock in,
> > Yes, it is a huge lock in. There are better ways to build a sustainable
> > company without frighten Customers to not invest in your product. It's
> > not about the pricetag, it's about to break the development model.
> >
> > >
> > > 3. Compatibility matters
> > > Having compatibility issues is a problem, not for Odoo Sa but for end
> > > users, who frankly don't understand much about the differences between
> > > all open source licenses (why would they care?). So we're coming again
> > > from an end user point of view. It's not Fabien's problem, it's the
> > > community's problem. We may say 'too bad' or we may say 'let's do
> > > something about it and find a solution so that our end users can have
> > > confidence in the whole ecosystem'.
> > Yes, and thats not involving closed source at any level.
> >
> > > Contributors need their work to be respected, but they like it to be
> > > used too (it's good marketing & it's good recognition). Having barriers
> > > to usage is a problem for everybody.
> > Absolutely - with a ecosystem with only free software its easy and
> > licences that protect investment gains contributors trust. MIT and LGPL
> > means less protection for the investment. Usually a contributor want his
> > investment to be used and refined by as many other contributors as
> > possible. If this happens the original contributor can gain from the
> > development done and use his resources on new challenging projects. With
> > licences with less protection
> > increases the risk that the original contributor not get the benefit of
> > any further developments.
> >
> > > Again, we are not taking anything away that was open source (from us or
> > > others) and moving it to paid. For all who signed a CLA with Odoo sa,
> > > their code will remain part of Odoo Community.
> > >
> > > So we definitely want to work with all contributors past & future to
> > > make it work, having in mind our collective ambition and most
> > > importantly the end users. I think we are quite close and we'll take the
> > > opportunity of the upcoming Odoo Experience event early June to move
> > > forward constructively with all, followed up over the summer.
> > I'ts impossible to collaborate with contributors using closed source -
> > you should know that - you are not makeing any incitements for
> > contributors to invest in those modules and less incitements to invest
> > in any other module.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Anders Wallenquist
> > > Thanks
> > > Alexandre
> > >
> > >
> > > Le 12-05-15 10:04, Anders Wallenquist a écrit :
> > > > Den 2015-05-11 21:02, Fabien Pinckaers skrev:
> > > > >
> > > > > Do we want to say to VOIP module customers: "You can not use OCA
> > > > > modules because of license incompatibilities"?  No, the more people
> > > > > use the OCA module the more the OCA will grow. (even if those guys
> > > > > also use the VOIP module)
> > > > >
> > > > > Do we want to say to OCA users: "You can not use the VOIP module!"? If
> > > > > they want, why would you force them not to do it? If you are against
> > > > > paid modules, don't use it yourself, but don't restrict the others to
> > > > > benefit from them.
> > > > >
> > > > Fabien, it's not the OCA who is the problem, your problem is that you
> > > > got >5000 modules at apps.odoo.com and many more at launchpad.net and
> > > > github and other places that is AGPL and is not OCA-modules and will be
> > > > AGPL for many years ahead. Only on apps.odoo.com you have a list of 500
> > > > companies that have contributed to Odoo. Only in Sweden we have regular
> > > > contact with 50 more companies that have done contributions to Odoo and
> > > > additional companies in Denmark, Norway and Finland not on that list.
> > > > Each company that contribute to Odoo are responsible to one or a large
> > > > quantity of end users using Odoo.
> > > >
> > > > You try to speak with OCA as one entity because it's convenient, but
> > > > this is not the reality. You have pointed at AGPL for six years now and
> > > > to move from that will take time and with the closed source-approach
> > > > maybe never happen. There are just a small if any incitements for
> > > > contributors to change the licence on their investments to a licence
> > > > they not trust. Maybe it should have been GPLv2 instead of AGPL, but
> > > > AGPL are what you have today.
> > > >
> > > > You look at all those modules not compatible with closed source as a
> > > > problem. As long as you don't work with all those contributions and
> > > > contributors as a valuable asset you will cripple Odoo in whole. Some
> > > > people would say that those assets are the most valuable asset for a
> > > > company like Odoo and cost the most to replace. It's not the source code
> > > > for core that are most valuable, its all end users and consultants
> > > > around the world that are willing to contribute and enhance your product
> > > > and widen your procucts user base - human resources. An Enterprise Odoo
> > > > without thousands of modules and without localizations are worth
> > > > nothing. Who do you think will contribute with hours of their own time
> > > > to translate your closed source modules to their native language? Your
> > > > competitors are already localized and well translated, so who will buy
> > > > that product?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Anders Wallenquist
> > > > >
> > > > > My 2 cents,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Fabien
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Alexandre Vandermeersch
> > > > +32 491 08 80 09
> > > > Marketing
> > > > Join us on June 3-5 2015:https://experience.odoo.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexandre Vandermeersch
> > +32 491 08 80 09
> > Marketing
> > Join us on June 3-5 2015: https://experience.odoo.com
>
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Marketing
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