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Re: Odoo v9 Paid Apps

by
Anders Wallenquist
- 05/12/2015 08:09:53
Den 2015-05-12 12:49, Alexandre Vandermeersch skrev:
> Let me  clarify a few things about those decisions:
>    1. It's about our ambition to have the best & most complete business
> management software in the world - and it's a must have
>     The size of the challenge is huge - a fully integrated product from
> CMS down to accounting, omnichannel (POS, Ecommerce, Salespeople).  For
> instance on ecommerce, we will need to have a different sets of apps ,
> themes to be competitive. And we think 'just' having connectors (eg with
> Magento) is not good enough and actually, doesn't work very well (we've
> tried).  In an 'omnichannel' world, where front & back are getting more
> integrated than ever, we simply have no choice than go that route.  For
> that great challenge we need a thriving open source community that
> contributes to great modules AND a funding system that provides some
> stability to a solid R&D staff AND a new community of developers/
> Designers who can thrive on Odoo without being integrators (ie relying
> mostly on apps revenues).
Have a look at Drupal.org, there are 30 000 modules and 2000 themes, all 
GPL combined with a huge community > 2 miljon contributors and nearly 40 
000 that contributes to core. You don't fins any paid modules or themes 
at Drupal.org but there are an industry worth MEUR living by paid themes 
and modules (still GPL) and not beeing integrators.

I think Fabien have the misunderstanding that its not possible to sell 
modules under a free software licence. This misunderstanding will create 
a swamp of licences that will certainly create huge barriers and 
unwanted transaction costs when using Odoo. No one want's to hire a 
business lawyer for each new Odoo-offer. There are no barriers with pure 
free software licences through the whole system.

>
> 2. It's about balancing the funding
> On that funding point, you might say that it's either for free or there
> is a lock in, and not everyone likes that. Yes, we will be moving the
> cursor a little because we think companies that can afford it should be
> paying a small amount for extended, advanced apps that required a
> significant investment on our side.  But it's not a lock in,
Yes, it is a huge lock in. There are better ways to build a sustainable 
company without frighten Customers to not invest in your product. It's 
not about the pricetag, it's about to break the development model.

>
> 3. Compatibility matters
> Having compatibility issues is a problem, not for Odoo Sa but for end
> users, who frankly don't understand much about the differences between
> all open source licenses (why would they care?). So we're coming again
> from an end user point of view. It's not Fabien's problem, it's the
> community's problem. We may say 'too bad' or we may say 'let's do
> something about it and find a solution so that our end users can have
> confidence in the whole ecosystem'.
Yes, and thats not involving closed source at any level.

> Contributors need their work to be respected, but they like it to be
> used too (it's good marketing & it's good recognition). Having barriers
> to usage is a problem for everybody.
Absolutely - with a ecosystem with only free software its easy and 
licences that protect investment gains contributors trust. MIT and LGPL 
means less protection for the investment. Usually a contributor want his 
investment to be used and refined by as many other contributors as 
possible. If this happens the original contributor can gain from the 
development done and use his resources on new challenging projects. With 
licences with less protection
increases the risk that the original contributor not get the benefit of 
any further developments.

> Again, we are not taking anything away that was open source (from us or
> others) and moving it to paid. For all who signed a CLA with Odoo sa,
> their code will remain part of Odoo Community.
>
> So we definitely want to work with all contributors past & future to
> make it work, having in mind our collective ambition and most
> importantly the end users. I think we are quite close and we'll take the
> opportunity of the upcoming Odoo Experience event early June to move
> forward constructively with all, followed up over the summer.
I'ts impossible to collaborate with contributors using closed source - 
you should know that - you are not makeing any incitements for 
contributors to invest in those modules and less incitements to invest 
in any other module.

Regards,

Anders Wallenquist
> Thanks
> Alexandre
>
>
> Le 12-05-15 10:04, Anders Wallenquist a écrit :
> > Den 2015-05-11 21:02, Fabien Pinckaers skrev:
> > >
> > > Do we want to say to VOIP module customers: "You can not use OCA
> > > modules because of license incompatibilities"?  No, the more people
> > > use the OCA module the more the OCA will grow. (even if those guys
> > > also use the VOIP module)
> > >
> > > Do we want to say to OCA users: "You can not use the VOIP module!"? If
> > > they want, why would you force them not to do it? If you are against
> > > paid modules, don't use it yourself, but don't restrict the others to
> > > benefit from them.
> > >
> > Fabien, it's not the OCA who is the problem, your problem is that you
> > got >5000 modules at apps.odoo.com and many more at launchpad.net and
> > github and other places that is AGPL and is not OCA-modules and will be
> > AGPL for many years ahead. Only on apps.odoo.com you have a list of 500
> > companies that have contributed to Odoo. Only in Sweden we have regular
> > contact with 50 more companies that have done contributions to Odoo and
> > additional companies in Denmark, Norway and Finland not on that list.
> > Each company that contribute to Odoo are responsible to one or a large
> > quantity of end users using Odoo.
> >
> > You try to speak with OCA as one entity because it's convenient, but
> > this is not the reality. You have pointed at AGPL for six years now and
> > to move from that will take time and with the closed source-approach
> > maybe never happen. There are just a small if any incitements for
> > contributors to change the licence on their investments to a licence
> > they not trust. Maybe it should have been GPLv2 instead of AGPL, but
> > AGPL are what you have today.
> >
> > You look at all those modules not compatible with closed source as a
> > problem. As long as you don't work with all those contributions and
> > contributors as a valuable asset you will cripple Odoo in whole. Some
> > people would say that those assets are the most valuable asset for a
> > company like Odoo and cost the most to replace. It's not the source code
> > for core that are most valuable, its all end users and consultants
> > around the world that are willing to contribute and enhance your product
> > and widen your procucts user base - human resources. An Enterprise Odoo
> > without thousands of modules and without localizations are worth
> > nothing. Who do you think will contribute with hours of their own time
> > to translate your closed source modules to their native language? Your
> > competitors are already localized and well translated, so who will buy
> > that product?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Anders Wallenquist
> > >
> > > My 2 cents,
> > >
> > >
> > > Fabien
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexandre Vandermeersch
> > +32 491 08 80 09
> > Marketing
> > Join us on June 3-5 2015:https://experience.odoo.com
>
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