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Re: Odoo v9 Community and Enterprise editionsby
Hi community, as co-founder of Akretion France I will give our position.
Fabien have resumed the situation like that : “OCA & Paid Apps are not compatible” vs “all modules are compatible” which model is the best?
If you only look at the picture without think twice than you can said “ok let’s go to the second option”. BUT there is a big missing point on this picture.
What are you losing as a partner and as a customer to move under LGPL?
If you don’t know the LGPL licence you should take a look at “Why you shouldn't use the Lesser GPL” here : https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.en.html
I will try to do my best to explain what are the consequences of moving under LGPL.
Choosing a licence is a really hard work to do, and it should be not selected randomly but chosen really carefully in order to be correctly protected.
Why customer are using OpenSource?
Customer do not chose OpenSource because is cheaper, but because
the quality is higher (more peer review)
the flexibility is higher (you integrator can modify everything)
you are not enchain to an integrator or an editor
If you look twice customer are really watchful with the last point. Step by step company want to take back the control on their IT and in some country using Open Source is pushed by the gouvernement himself. For exemple in 2012 the French gouverment have done a paper to push all services of the administration to use PostgreSQL http://circulaire.legifrance.gouv.fr/pdf/2012/09/cir_35837.pdf
I also have a good article (sorry in French) that explain that customer do not chose OpenSource for the price anymore http://www.lemagit.fr/actualites/2240237407/Open-Source-le-cout-nest-plus-la-1ere-motivation
So what will be lost by the customer? LGPL and AGPL are OpenSource right ?
Yes both are open but... LGPL is not a “network protective” licence.
This mean that if I build a SaaS with all OCA module under LGPL. I can use it, modify it without giving back the source to the customer and the community. All my customer will be lock-in with the offer without any legal possibility to have an access to the code. I can increase my price without caring of him, their are my slaves...
Why integrator are using OpenSource?
We have the freedom to modify everything needed for your customer
We can reduce our marketing cost with the visibility of our contribution
We can enjoy the efficient of a collaborative eco-system
We are not enchain to an editor and we can adapt our price to our country as we do not have extra mandatory cost from the editor
So what will be lost by the integrator? LGPL and AGPL are Open Source right ?
Yes both are open but... What can happen if all community module are under LGPL
Well basically Odoo can close totally the code of the core and use the OCA module.
So soon you will become the slave of an editor. For sure Fabien is a good person and will not close the code, but Fabien may sell his company one day, and be sure that with sure an opportunity closing the code can be an interesting thing for the VC.
Why Odoo should care about LGPL?
Wait, am I joking? LGPL do not protect Odoo himself???
Sadly no joke here... we really need a licence that is “network protective” everything is moving in the cloud. What will happen if a competitor like SAP invest 100 millions for building a close source SaaS? They can take all the Odoo and OCA code and create a huge SaaS offert, modifying the code source, improving it, without giving back any line of code to the community. Are you ready to be rape?
Just some number in 2014 the SAP R&D budget is 3088 millions, investing 100 millions under a closed Odoo fork SaaS is nothing for them : http://ycharts.com/companies/SAP/r_and_d_expense
For me OCA module under AGPL are our last rampart against such investment... we have to be really carefull for each of our decision.
I am done with the LGPL vs AGPL, I hope that you understand the huge risk. And I think you have guest that I am totaly against moving under LGPL. I am not talking here about the issue that will produce the paying module (this is the second part of my email)
Regarding the fact that OCA can split or not the eco-system, OpenSource VS Entreprise. I will give my own opinion. Before there is only one eco-system, the AGPL one. Now, even if after all the email exchanged, the long talk done... Odoo have decided to move on LGPL to create a second eco-system incompatible with the first one that protect us.
Now there is two eco-system, one with paying app (and close source) and one that still continue to work with the OpenSource Spirit. Sadly Odoo have made their choice. Even if we are open, we can not give for free our investment. Indeed if all community module are free, there are free under APGL and this is our investment : ”we all have build a great eco-system” and we will not give up.
To conclude :
Business is business each of us are small company, the AGPL licence is our only protection and I do not see any other licence that can protect our work as the AGPL did. If we were a big company like Google, for sure we will be able to move on LGPL, MIT or whatever, but... we are a community of ant, each of us are small but all together we are strong. We need to work all together in order to provide the most efficient ERP Solution.
I hope that Odoo will find a better business model, because I have not trust in this new one, and I think the income of Odoo SA will be quickly impacted as customer will see less value in the “Entreprise Version”, why paying “Entreprise module that are incompatible?”
If you are a courageous reader you can continue until the end, I will try to explain why I think a business with no paying module is more efficient and better for all of us.
Is Selling modules the best model?
Doing Open Source is hard, really hard, really really hard. Sadly many partners do not see the added value of real Free Software, and most of partner think it’s normal and easier to sell module instead of contributing modules for free. There already had a long talk on it in previous mailing list. And I am pretty sure that you can found a lot of discussion about it everywhere on the web.
Does paying module will generate more net income for your company?
Increasing his income by giving for free our module seem to be a crazy idea, but we did it since 2009 and it works. When you do Open Source in reality you don’t just give for free your module, you give it in order to get build a market. The more you contribute, the more famous you are and you can sell your day more expensive without investing a cent in marketing and sales. Moreover contributing your code gives you a free migration and free improvement for your customer, you can update your customer version easily for a small share effort and this will make your customer happy.
Basically you have two options:
Doing close source : Net Income = Billing - cost of development - extra-cost for closing the application at the maximum - high cost of maintenance - cost of marketing - cost of salesmen - cost of lawyer - cost of fighting flame war against proprietary software - cost....
Doing Open Source : Net Income = Billing - cost of development
And the best is to sold consulting days so no risk to loose money ;)
We choose the second option and really it works ! And we know that we have an efficient model, that make us cheaper that close-source software.
Are paid modules good for a community?
We know well the Magento Community and it's a really an inefficient one, let me explain why: Magento can have paid and free modules as the core allow to have paid module. Some partner think it's great because they can have an easier ROI, but in fact this turns the community into a « readonly community ». Partner does not want to share anymore, as they can sell their modules, they will always produce paying modules and nobody wants to contribute to it (you are not going to improve your competitor module as he sells it). Partner spend time on having a good way to « lock » their modules instead of improving it. This will be a waste of time and money and also introduce new bug due to a more complex code.
Even if the OCA community is small, we are a strong community because we do not have interest into selling our module. Our aim is simple “having the best quality OCA module and helping one another”, we know that the more we share the less it costs to build a feature and maintain it.
What will happen it a lot of new partner start to sell modules with a big marketing, focusing on only WOW feature without taking care about test and quality? I pretty sure that we are going to die as step by step we are going to sold module too.
Look at magento community......
Also, don’t think we are Android either: we are not an innovative multi billion platform with an excellent API built stable upfront and with isolated apps like mobile games that are siloed one from another. Instead in Odoo, there is a systemic complexity where collaboration should happen and open source is just the perfect fit for it. The API and platform is also a moving target that was very approximative a few years earlier but is getting better iteration after iteration thanks to the input of hundreds of experts investing under the umbrella of copyleft license protection.
Does paying module means better quality?
No, in fact customer start to think the opposite. A quote again this french article (http://www.lemagit.fr/actualites/2240237407/Open-Source-le-cout-nest-plus-la-1ere-motivation), but customer prefer OpenSource not because it’s cheaper but because the quality and the flexibility of the software are better. Just take 2 minutes and think how the OCA is now working, every contribution need 2 reviews. Do you really think that developing a close source module without any external review can have a better quality??
To conclude I will say one thing, If like us
you are a small company or you are just alone starting a new company
you do not have a billion to invest
you like your job
you want improve the quality of your code
you want to have customer without wasting time and money
you want to enjoy free review and free advice
Then do the big step, OpenSource really works ! Don’t be scare! We start Akretion without any money and now we are a real team, with real customer, and real money in our pocket ! We don’t waste money in marketing and sales. Closing a deal with a customer ask us less than half a day (even for 200K€ contract ;) ). And we are already booked until... 2016 ;)
OpenSource is perfect for small company that sell service, because you don’t waste money.
For sure we can improve the eco-system :
We need to improve the visibility of the contribution to the customer. This will generate more lead for contributor and encourage each of us to continue in that direction. Each contribution will be converted in an high marketing value.
We need to help new partner to understand the eco-system and give than some training on how to contribute.
We need to provide a donation store that give the possibility to the customer to give extra money to the author of the module.
We need to educate more our customer to understand all the added value of the OpenSource software. Our competitor are close source ERP, we don’t have to fight each other to take the biggest piece of “opensource cake” but we have to work all together to make this cake bigger !
And the last and the most complicated point. We really need to convince Fabien that he is going in the wrong direction and this can be critical for the health of Odoo SA. Even on magento customer start to kick away the enterprise version because at the end you have the same feature for less money in the community. We need to him to take back trust in OpenSource model. I hope we will succeed but sadly I start to think that it’s impossible...
Hope that you understand our position but for us it’s clear. AGPL protect us and we will never give up ! Our community of ant’s is strong, that ever will happen we will always succeed if we stick to the right direction.
At the end, it all comes down to select between two models:1/ A competitive one: (OCA & Paid Apps are not compatible)Open Source = Odoo Community + OCAvsEnterprise = Odoo Community + Paid AppsBoth versions compete against each others and some modules are incompatible. It's a model where one expect that the other will collapse. 2/ Or a compatible one: (all modules are compatible)Any Installation = Odoo Community + OCA + Paid AppsIn this model, all modules are compatible. An OCA user can buy an app or theme on the app store and use it with his OCA modules. Or an Enterprise user can use OCA modules and contribute to them. Both Odoo v9 Community (from Odoo SA) and OCA modules are under LGPL, this protects their open source nature.For me, it's clear that we should follow the second option and work together on a compatible approach, rather than a competitive one. But it's a choice the OCA have to do because it's related to their modules (AGPL --> LGPL)Hope it helps understanding,--Fabien In the first scenario:- the position of OCA could be to say that Odoo SA will collapse because OCA will prevent people from buying Odoo Enterprise. (Eric's mail)- the position of Odoo SA could be to say that OCA will have to change their license in the long term to LGPL because of the pressure of the end users that will not accept incompatibilities between modules (they will want both the new versions / features and the OCA modules, because both are great)On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Fabien Pinckaers <email@example.com> wrote:In short about the licenses: We move Odoo from AGPL to LGPL to allow the possibility for everyone to sell modules (using the license they want as LGPL is permissive). To follow this direction, we launched the Apps Store with a few paid apps and themes: https://www.odoo.com/apps/themes?price=Paid https://www.odoo.com/apps?price=Paid OCA modules are currently under AGPL, they did not converted their modules on LGPL. This means OCA modules are not compatible with paid apps (that may be under proprietary licenses or not) or the other way around: paid apps are not compatible with OCA modules. There is no LGPL+NDA, nor AGPL+NDA. There is just paid extra modules (on proprieatry licenses). Odoo Enterprise version 9 is the name of the product that will bundle our paid apps for version 9. On 05/09/2015 10:23 AM, Ana Juaristi wrote: > Dear Fabien and everybody. > Believe today I'm getting totally frustrated because I understand almost > nothing about what is happening. > > First of all, a few weeks ago Odoo decides unilaterally changing the > license to LGPL because it's needed having some paid modules... nothing > to say. > A few months ago community said LGPL and AGPL where basically > compatible, that is... you could install AGPL and LGPL modules on same > instance for a customer or whatever... nothing to say. > Then.. Odoo decides including NDA + LGPL on enterprise modules, so.. > they can not be evolved not published by community... nothing to say. > It's their decision, be good or wrong. Up to them. > > After that someone says that LGPL is not compatible with AGPL > I read Eric's email and say myself... ok.. it's clear now... but... > > At the end... Fabien is asking community to change our modules license > to LGPL to make again compatible all ecosystem... so.. are we again at > starting point? Why not make enterprise modules AGPL + NDA???????? > Wouldn't it be easier? > > What are the consecuences of changing our community modules from AGPL to > LGPL? What happens if community doesn't accept to do that? > > It's like Odoo takes a decision and now it's passing community the > responsability or availability about the way and rules to follow. > > Seriously... I understand nothing. Could someone try to explain how it > is, just like I was a 5 years old child???? > > Thank you: > > Ana > > 2015-05-09 18:57 GMT+02:00 Fabien Pinckaers <firstname.lastname@example.org > <mailto:email@example.com>>: > > Eric, > > I am convinced that a good a model is one that aligns everyone's > objectives: the community, the partners and Odoo SA. > > The ideal world would be this: > > Open Source = Community + OCA > Enterprise = Community + OCA + Paid Apps > > And not this: > > Open Source = Community + OCA > Enterprise = Community + Paid Apps > > > The ideal world > --------------- > > The ideal world would be to let people choose between: > > Open Source = Community + OCA > Enterprise = Community + OCA + Paid Apps > > With such a model, everyone is aligned: > - The success of OCA is in the interest of Odoo SA because OCA can be > used by enterprise users. We would make our best to promote OCA and > community. > - Investing in open source is key for Odoo SA because it can be a path > to upgrade to Odoo Enterprise, and it's the way to attract more users > and contributors to our open source community. > - OCA users will be able to use ALL modules available in the Odoo place > and will not be restricted because of internal license conflicts > > The wrong approach > ------------------ > > If the OCA pushes for a divergent fork: > > Open Source = Community + OCA > Enterprise = Community + Paid Apps > > What does this mean? > > - OCA users will not be able to use paid apps (themes, voip, ...): it's > a loss of value for OCA users. Seriously, who cares if an OCA user > wants to pay for an Odoo theme? It's not bad, it's good for him. > - Enterprise users will not be able to use OCA apps: it is a loss of > value for enterprise users and a loss of contributors for OCA > - Users of the two worlds will loose a lot: it's like if everyone can > only use 50% of the apps, but not everything they want. > - On the three types of modules (Community, OCA, Enterprise), the looser > may become community because everyone tries to strengthen its > position because of a stupid internal fight Odoo Enterprise vs Odoo > OCA > - We will create frustrations within the Odoo community. OCA will try to > redevelop Enterprise modules because they are not compatible with > their license and Odoo SA will have to redevelop OCA module if > enterprise users need them. > > > What should we do? > ------------------ > > We should all work together by making ALL modules becoming compatible > with each others. > > It should be in Odoo SA interest to participate and grow the OCA and it > should be in OCA interest to have Odoo SA that releases great community > versions every year. > > Every one invest in what better fits his need but the users benefit from > everything: OCA do open source, Odoo SA do open source (Odoo community) > and enterprise, partners can do open source modules or paid apps, ... > > I want to work with OCA to improve Odoo in general because our users are > free to use OCA modules. I want to continue collaborating with everyone > on github while avoiding stupid internal licenses conflicts. > > I am convinced that the success of Odoo has been to benefit from a great > community, a strong Odoo SA and a huge partner network. That's what made > the difference with Openbravo (vendor with low community) or Adempiere > (community with no vendor). > > If we succeed to continue contributing together while satisfying > everyones need, Odoo and its community will be a sky rocket: > - Odoo SA will release great new versions every year > - Community will develop great extra addons > > > Can we do this? > --------------- > > For all of the above reasons, this model is great: > > Open Source = Community + OCA > Enterprise = Community + OCA + Paid Apps > > And Eric's model is the start of an internal divergence of interests > whose loser will be the user: > > Open Source = Community + OCA > Enterprise = Community + Paid Apps > > We can do the first model. > > All we have to do is to make the OCA modules compatible with other > modules: from AGPL license to LGPL license. > > I know it's an effort for the OCA (they don't have the copyright of > everything) but as I said to the OCA board: we are ready to contribute > and make it happen. I am ready to dedicate our developers to convert all > OCA modules to version 9 in LGPL. (at least those that do not conflict > with Enterprise modules) > > > Imagine the sky rocket we can do if Odoo SA and OCA succeed to better > work hand in hand instead of fighting on licenses issues. > > So, if you want to do it, we can do it. > > > To be clear: I don't ask you to sell or buy Odoo Enterprise. Some will > do, others will only use Odoo Community. That's fine. > > I just ask you that we collaborate by making all modules compatible so > that our users can freely choose what they want to use. And, as our > interest become aligned, we can help you do it. > > > -- > Fabien > > > > On 05/08/2015 11:36 PM, Caudal Eric wrote: > > As far as I understood, Community edition is the current core of 280 > > modules (+ / - deprecated/added modules over the versions). > > > > Enterprise = Community + additional modules (current paid ones with > > LGPL2+NDA). > > > > I do not forsee any issue using the Community + OCA modules (LGPL2+AGPL3 > > are compatible) but it will probably not be possible to use Enterprise + > > OCA (for the NDA). > > > > Said so, we knew that this move was coming and current proposal still > > keeps the core opensource, which is far better than other proposals I > > have seen. If the value proposition of the Enterprise modules is good > > enough, customers will follow. > > > > One point though: Odoo SA will not be able to capitalize on the > > community for the Enterprise modules (and I think they dont expect it > > actually). Nevertheless, the community will still be able to play a full > > role in the Community edition which is not half product (this is a fully > > workable ERP that most of us are using today). > > > > Somehow a friendly fork might naturally happen here: Community + > > Enterprise vs Community + OCA with different customers target and > > maintainers. > > Odoo SA +Odoo community will take care of the Community > > Odoo SA will obviously develop the base for Enterprise while the > > Community will push the OCA alternative. > > > > Customer target might overlap but not necessarily. As long as the core > > remains open, there is probably space for both options. Odoo SA has > > actually much more to lose if Enterprise fails. In this case (which I do > > not wish!), anyway, the opencore will still survive if there is enough > > community to sustain it. > > > > Overall, I see this move as additional offer to the current options. It > > might widen the current market and in extreme circumstances cannibalize > > the community one if it generates enough value. > > > > We should not be scared of the competition but try to beat it! > > > > If you think the community proposition is more valuable, then hare and > > contribute, create merge proposals, publish code and documentation ... > > within the OCA umbrella or not :). > > > > > > 2015-05-09 12:02 GMT+08:00 OpenERP Master > >: > > > > Hello, > > > > I think it is interesting to comment on Magento, and then followup > > with a statement about died open source projects. Magento has a > > considerable market share of all websites in the world, and their > > user base, developers, etc far surpass Odoo by several times. Most > > people in the ecommerce world know what Magento is, while little > > people in the ERP world know what Odoo is, to provide a basic > > comparison. > > > > Your statements about quality seem to directly contradict the > > quality and execution that exist in the code base today. My first > > thought about this release was that Odoo was copying Magento's > > business model. It also seems like Odoo takes a lot after Magento, > > like the release of the ecommerce module, then state that it is the > > "best open source ecommerce solution" which is obviously not true. > > (no offense), almost to announce direct competition with Magento. > > > > I am not surprised that this approach is being taken, and its > > probably an inevitable path as a project grows and matures. How it > > impacts the community and the success of the software over time > > remains to be seen. > > > > I see two things happening. 1, if this model is successful the core > > of the program will get a lot better and there will actually be real > > standard enterprise features. Or 2, the software is mainly developed > > on the paid version, in which case the software would eventually be > > abandoned for something else. There's emerging competition out there.... > > > > On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 9:17 PM, Jeffery > > wrote: > > > > should we reference this model with redhat, like this > > > > odoo community == fedora (formly redhat linux) > > odoo enterprise == redhat enterprise linux > > odoo oca == centos > > > > is this right? > > > > On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Gunnar Wagner > > > <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > <mailto:email@example.com>>> wrote: > > +1 .. but what > could be the consequences? > > I somewhat doubt that the S.A.'s move > is open for > discussion. The reason we (the company I am working > in) > chose to go with OpenERP as our ERP-system of choice was > > that it is Open Source and mainly that we think the > community is > strong (in terms of technically capable AND > powerful enough to > protect the Open Source nature of the > project). I strongly hope > that this will prove to be true now. > > Even though I agree with > what was said by Houssine earlier > (forking is not an ideal > scenario and it would hurt the > product Odoo) I think it must be an > option on the table. The > threat of a fork might be a sharp > argument to prevent this > development (which apart from S.A. > apparently nobody regards > as bringing any good to the product > Odoo). Following this > discussion so far seems the Community is > strongly against > segregation. At the same time I am not sure > whether there is > reason for much confidence in the possibility > S.A. can be > convinced with good arguments to step back from their > plans. > This does not look like a rush move which eventually might > > be taken back. > Taking these two points as a working theory I > think the > Community needs to take action. How about extending > > support/development for OCB 8.0 as a first step? > > > > > On > 5/9/2015 3:36 AM, Raphaël Valyi wrote: > > > cite="mid:CAByrsx3WmxhEdfwuXJj=6+HnD4h_hS-6L-haA-YphQTJT1avbA@mail.gmail.com > <mailto:6%2BHnD4h_hS-6L-haA-YphQTJT1avbA@mail.gmail.com> > > <mailto:6%2BHnD4h_hS-6L-haA-YphQTJT1avbA@mail.gmail.com > <mailto:6%252BHnD4h_hS-6L-haA-YphQTJT1avbA@mail.gmail.com>>" > > type="cite"> > Hello, > > much has been said. However something > has been missing I > think: it's said that Community en > Enterprise versions are > not diverging. Well let me question > it. > > We should remember that in 2008, OpenERP SA himself > moved > the licensing from GPL to AGPL, thus creating an > incentive > to create an AGPL ecosystem. As a results, dozens of > company > and hundreds of developers invested in creating > hundreds of > AGPL modules, including dozens of localization (as > we did at > Akretion) and this is pretty much what makes Odoo > attractive > on several verticals and countries. All that was > also > enforcing a very specific open source business model. > > > And with the OCA skyrocketing these days, everyone can > easily > verify that this is a sustainable model that produce > high > quality modules (better than the core by many metrics), > > freedom/security both for the users and and for the open > > source editors. > > Now, the non open source modules ARE NOT > COMPATIBLE with > that existing AGPL license!! > > I remind you > that the OCA conducted a juridic study to see > if it was > possible to change the AGPL license of all these > modules, but > a clear NO was given as we would never get the > agreement from > all the dozens of contributors for code > contributed even > previously from the OCA CLA (Contributor > License Agreement). > This from a pure juridic standpoint, I'm > not even talking if > that would be any interesting move or > not (many think there is > much more to loose than to win with > such a move, both for the > customers who will be trapped in > closed source code/freemium > and for system integrators that > will be trapped in dubious > commercial policies from the > closed source editors). > > And > think about the kind of perversion of open source values > this > is: it would mean that all the sudden, the guys that > were > violating the AGPL license, that were parasiting the > ecosystem > by using it without giving anything back, would > suddenly be > the good guys with a cool business model for the > VC's (cause > commission on it with no control over what it > will be in the > future, think Apple appstore). While all the > good guys that > made Odoo what it is today by enforcing the > copyleft licenses, > would have no legal way to continue there > activities if the > non copyleft side were to rise? > > Come on, what kind of > community do you think you would > build? Imagine a country > where you would suddenly free all > prisoners who violated the > law and put everybody else in > jail. Will that build a better > world??? Let me doubt. > > So with Odoo SA business relying on > the sale of non free > modules. It's quite clear that there will > be a competition > between the free AGPL ecosystem and the non > free modules, a > competition between two different antagonist > visions. So I > don't see where is the synergy here. > > Also, > if Odoo SA is unable to work in synergy with the > community > anymore, how would its business model be any more > optimized > than those inefficient proprietary softwares from > the past > models? > > Open source works because this is a shared work > where the > cost is divided, the bureaucracy for collaboration > is > minimum (but still what is established in an open source > > license should be enforced and not questioned every two > years > in interference with business models that didn't > apparently > adhere to the initial contract). > > And note that I say that > while I'm really not an open source > ayatollah. I totally > understand that open source is a low > profit model that > eventually doesn't match the Venture > Capital expectations > (read the "there is no hockey stick > with open source" post > from the Compiere ERP creator). So I > totally understand that > Odoo SA could have included non open > source products in its > offering. Now in my opinion if it had > non open source > products, it should NEVER have been Odoo > modules. It could > have been hosting services or webservices > of any nature, or > mobile clients or whatever, but NOT > something that run inside > the same Odoo ERP process that > that forced to hurt the > licensing model upon which that > great ecosystem has been > built. Hopefully it's still time to > backpedal on this to lower > the obvious value destruction > associated with such move. > > > My 2 cents. > > On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Mohammad > Alhashash > > wrote: > > I think the there is still some > confusion about the > structure of the Enterprise edition. If it > is "a set of > modules on top of Odoo Community", why bug fixes > will be > "forward ported to Odoo Enterprise"? Does this mean > that > the community edition will act as the cutting-edge > > edition of the stable enterprise version (like Fedora vs > > Redhat Enterprise Linux)? On 08/05/15 19:34, Fabien > Pinckaers > wrote: > Dear community, > > I understand some > of you may have > joined Odoo, a few years ago, with > > another model in mind. > That's not the open source model > we initialy > wanted and > that's not the model we > advertised you over the past 8 years. > > We even > criticised the "open core" model most open source > > software are > following  and we were very proud of > being > 100% open source by > refusing partners to sell > their Odoo > modules. > > After having pushed this > direction for 8 years, I > now think I was wrong. > This > model worked, but we can do > better. And we have to do it > if we want > to raise the bar and > make Odoo the world's > most used management > software. Being > closed to other > model / contributors was a bad idea. > People > should be > free to choose the model they want to finance their > > > contributions. Since we launched the Odoo apps store, we > > received a lot > of feedbacks and we are now convinced > it was > a very good move. > > So, > - Do we plan to > continue investing > actively in Odoo community? Yes > - > Do we plan to sell more? > Yes > > Is it bad for community > members? no. Because both > those objectives are > > mutually benefical to each others. As > Antony explained, > Odoo Community > and Odoo Enterprise are not > divergent > products. We are designing both > Github > repositories so > that Odoo Enterprise relies on Odoo Community. > > (or > Odoo Community becomes the foundation of Odoo > > Enterprise). > > In terms of process, bugs will be fixed > in > Odoo Community and forward > ported to Odoo > Enterprise. Odoo > Enterprise evolutions will contribute > to > Odoo Community as > all the 280 core modules are in > Odoo Community and > every > improvement on those modules > will be on Odoo community (the > > current scope of > version 8 will be in Odoo Community, we don't > plan to > > reduce the scope of the community application) . > > > > In that sense, it's more an OpenFullERP model than an > > OpenCore one. And > that's what we want: > - We want > Odoo > Community to be the best management software out > there > (not > a secondary, unimportant product) > - We > want Odoo Enterprise > to have extra features than Odoo > Community to > upsell some of > our users > > Of course, > some may get frustrated within the > next months. Odoo > > Enterprise will have great new features > that some may > want to get for > free. But please understand > that 1/ > its necessary to continue fueling > the Odoo > > developments efforts like we are doing now and 2/ this > does > not > change our active commitment to Odoo > Community, the open > source version. > > I also think > that this increased value > proposition will help us > improve > the business relationship > with partners since > we will no longer have to > compete with > partners on > selling services.  Both roles are more clear > > with > this model: Odoo SA's role is to build a great product, > > partners > role is to offer services to customers. > > > Since > Odoo Enterprise is a set of modules on top of Odoo > Community, > both > versions will be linked to each > others. The success of > one will bring > success to the > other too. (through bugfixes > or new versions) > > > Thanks, > > Fabien > >  A statement I > wrote 3 years > ago: > > > https://www.odoo.com/fr_FR/blog/odoo-news-5/post/our-open-source-business-model-119> <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> <mailto:email@example.com > <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>> > > > Unsubscribe: > https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > > > > Post to: mailto:email@example.com > <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> <mailto:email@example.com > <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>> > > > Unsubscribe: > https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Fabien Pinckaers > > Odoo Founder > > > > Web: > https://www.odoo.com> > Twitter: @fpodoo > > > > Instant Demo: > https://odoo.com/start/cms > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > > Post > to: mailto:email@example.com > <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> <mailto:email@example.com > <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>> > > Unsubscribe: > https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: > https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > Post to: > mailto:email@example.com <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > > <mailto:email@example.com > <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>> > Unsubscribe: > https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > > > > > -- > Raphaël > Valyi > Founder and consultant > http://twitter.com/rvalyi > +55 > 21 3942-2434 > www.akretion.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: > https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59> Post to: > mailto:email@example.com <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > > > -- > > > Gunnar Wagner | Iris Germanica Ltd. | JinQian Gong Lu 385, > > 8-201 | FengXian Qu, 201404 Shanghai | P.R. CHINA > +86 159 0094 > 1702 | +49 (0)176 7808 9090 %280%29176 7808 9090> %280%29176 7808 9090> | skype: > professorgunrad | > www.fashionsupermarket.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: > https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59> Post to: > mailto:email@example.com <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > > <mailto:email@example.com > <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>> > Unsubscribe: > https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > > > > > -- > Jeffery > -odoo expert form kunshan, suzhou, china > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: > https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59> Post to: > mailto:email@example.com <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > > <mailto:email@example.com > <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>> > Unsubscribe: > https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: > https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > Post to: > mailto:email@example.com <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > <mailto:email@example.com > <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>> > Unsubscribe: > https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > > > > > -- > Eric > CAUDAL > +86 186 21 36 16 70 > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: > https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59> Post to: > mailto:email@example.com <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > -- > Fabien Pinckaers Odoo Founder Web: https://www.odoo.comTwitter: > @fpodoo Instant Demo: https://odoo.com/start/cms > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > Post to: mailto:email@example.com <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > > > > > -- > CEO Avanzosc, S.L : Office phone / Tfono > oficina: (+34) 943 02 69 02 > Ana Juaristi Olalde : Personal phone: 677 > 93 42 59. 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If you received this message by error, please advise us, > destroy it and refrain from communicating its contents to third parties. > We apologise for any inconvenience receiving this email improperly may > cause to you. *Your personal data are included in a file owned by > Avanzosc, S.L. If you want to exercise your rights of access, > correction, erasure and objection you can contact the Controller > at //Klara Donea 13// 20720, Azkoitia (Gipuzkoa), T: 943 02 69 02 – > _administracion@avanzosc. <mailto:email@example.com>es_/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > Post to: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > -- Fabien Pinckaers Odoo Founder Web: https://www.odoo.com Twitter: @fpodoo Instant Demo: https://odoo.com/start/cms> > > >  If, for technical reasons, we have to remove a > > module from Odoo > community because it conflicts with a > new > Odoo Enterprise module, we > will give a v9 version > to the > community or OCA so that you don't get > less > features with > Odoo v9 (but much more since we will add a > lot of > great > features in Odoo v9 community too) --> we > already know that we > > will have to do this for > account_followup that we plan to > remove from > Odoo > Community (because it's not clean enough). > So, we will > contribute a > working version for v9 to OCA > modules. > > > > > > On 05/07/2015 05:34 PM, Stephen Mack wrote: > > > > Any thought about being more descriptive with the naming > > to avoid confusion? > > > > If the Enterprise edition is > > simply a bundle of modules why make it > > sound like > the core > is different. > > > > I fully support Odoo > making paid modules > but then why not name it > > > "Enterprise Feature Pack" or > "Enterprise Add-on" or > anything to signify > > that the Odoo > core is not > involved. > > > > Odoo Community addition sounds > like a > stripped down, vanilla version of > > Odoo Enterprise > > addition. > > > > I really want odoo to succeed but > please > don't add fuel to the fire. > > Proudly present > Odoo as a > strong product and then confidently charge for > > > Enterprise > Module Features. > > > > Just my two > cents. I really don't > want to be explaining the > difference > > of the two versions > for years in the > forums. > > > > Humbly, > > > > --Stephen > > > > > On > Thu, May 7, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Antony Lesuisse > > > >> > wrote: > > > > With version 9, we will release 2 > editions of > odoo: Odoo Community and Odoo > > > Enterprise. > > > > Odoo > Enterprise will consist of Odoo > Community plus a set of > enterprise only > > features (or > in technical term, an > additional repository with extra > modules). > > > > Some new > features that have been under > developement latetly will be in > > > enterprise such as > electronic signature, integration with > shipping > providers. > > For example the crm_voip module > > (currently published as a paid app on the app > > store) > will > be in the enterprise repository. However core > modules like the > new > > accounting remains in the > Community version. > > > > > Odoo community will be > supported as much as Odoo enterprise, > Odoo Community is > > > the foundation of Odoo Enterprise and it > will remain > free and open source as LGPL. > > > > For > technical > users, they can access the code through the same > GitHub > > > repository. The community version 9 will be at > > odoo/odoo#9.0 and the > > development branch is still at > > odoo/odoo#master. > > > > Odoo Enterprise users (and > partners) > will have access to the enterprise > > > repository containing > only the additional modules. > > > > > You might have wondered > why odoo master has not been > pushed for a few weeks. > > The > reason is that we had > some feature branches with those extra > modules, we > > > did not want to push the merged branches as > LGPL. > > > > > We are currently filtering the branch with > > git-filter-branch before we can > > push it back to > master. > > > > > Antony. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > > > > > Post to: mailto:email@example.com