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community@mail.odoo.com

Re: Odoo v9 Community and Enterprise editions

by
Celera Networks
- 05/09/2015 13:19:07
Hello Community,

I think that we have 2 different core lines of thinking that are not
converging here.

First, is the software EVOLUTION model.

Second, would be the BUSINESS model that every contributor would follow.
We all have competition and should take care of it by ourselves.

I think that Odoo,S.A., as main contributor, will need to figure out  
how to capitalize this position.  But not by excluding the community  
from their
"enterprise features" based on the core software, created and maintained with
the synergy of the community.

----- Message from peter@vitha.nl ---------
     Date: Sat, 09 May 2015 10:24:56 -0000
     From: Peter Schuttevaar <peter@vitha.nl>
Reply-To: "Odoo S.A. Community" <community@mail.odoo.com>
  Subject: Re: Odoo v9 Community and Enterprise editions
       To: Community <community@mail.odoo.com>


> Hello all,
>
> Very interesting discussion. Here are my two cents...  (be warned,
> fairly long read ahead...)
>
> I think the business model should be about how to earn money with
> the community core, in implementing it and in maintaining it for
> clients, not about how to earn money outside of that core.
>
> I am new to the community. I downloaded version 8 somewhere in
> January of this year, simply because i could. It was free to
> download and to install. It's main functions were apparent right
> from its download pages. The community seemed to be alive and
> kicking. Documentation was available. Installation took only a few
> hours (including setting up a linux server on the internet and
> resolving some strange pdf export problems). My first impression was
> one of stability and user friendliness. Even the installation of
> modules worked like a miracle. With full integration from the start.
> This was so much better than i had experienced with other packages.
> After two weeks of trial i just decided to migrate my entire
> business administration, as well as my website to Odoo. As i have
> gained so much from this software, i am eager to contribute
> something to the community and so i started to promote Odoo in my
> network.
>
> I am afraid though, that if i had known about license issues, it
> might have prevented me from downloading and installing. Simply
> because i am allergic to the license formula being toyed around
> with. Here is why....
>
> Apparently, the folks who took the initiative to this project feel
> that they need more cash because, while growing bigger, they feel
> the sting of some big competing software houses and their resellers
> with real money in their pockets. Their big marketing spending is
> perceived as a direct thread to the growth perspective of the Odoo
> community (and it is). Now some of these adepts see it as a solution
> to also start some marketing machinery and they need money to do so.
> To this end, they feel that they have to push the open source ghost
> a bit back into its bottle. But as the saying goes, you cannot get
> the ghost back into its bottle. So they try to put a part of the
> ghost in it and claim that it is actually not the ghost they have
> put back in the bottle, but just some nice cloths that the ghost can
> wear so that it will look better (less like a ghost and more
> sophisticated). And they say that others can sell some other clothes
> for the ghost as well and earn more money through this.
>
> The suggestion now is that the core is not compromised and that only
> some luxury or non-essential functions will be sold as an enterprise
> thing (the partial ghost in the bottle). That would be as to say
> that you can earn money with selling non essentials whereas you
> don't with the essentials. That is a wrong assumption. Not to say
> that it is outright illogical. You should earn money with the
> essentials and give the non-essentials as an extra, for free.
> Otherwise, it is just boxing and labeling the non-essentials as
> essential and vice versa. You are then using the core as a low level
> entry for customers, only for them to discover later on that the
> real benefit of the software is in buying all the extra's.
>
> So again, in my humble opinion, the business model should be about
> how to earn money with the community core.
>
> Greetings from Peter Schuttevaar
>
> PS: sorry for the length of my contribution. My strain of thought
> just would not come to an end.
>
>
>
> On 09-05-15 08:47, Ana Juaristi wrote:
>
> 
cite="mid:CAMfyfiY=D0hh=Vv7N_H6tPF=bRur1T5Pc884vgc_mK8bcw9jmg@mail.gmail.com" > type="cite"> > Eric... +1 Great analysis!! > El 09/05/2015 08:35, "Caudal Eric" < caudaleric@gmail.com [1] > > escribió: > As far as I understood, Community edition is > the current core of 280 modules (+ / - deprecated/added > modules over the versions). > > Enterprise = Community + additional modules (current > paid ones with LGPL2+NDA). > > I do not forsee any issue using the Community + OCA > modules (LGPL2+AGPL3 are compatible) but it will probably > not be possible to use Enterprise + OCA (for the NDA). > > Said so, we knew that this move was coming and current > proposal still keeps the core opensource, which is far > better than other proposals I have seen. If the value > proposition of the Enterprise modules is good enough, > customers will follow. > > One point though: Odoo SA will not be able to > capitalize on the community for the Enterprise modules > (and I think they dont expect it actually). Nevertheless, > the community will still be able to play a full role in > the Community edition which is not half product (this is a > fully workable ERP that most of us are using today). > > Somehow a friendly fork might naturally happen here: > Community + Enterprise vs Community + OCA with different > customers target and maintainers. > Odoo SA +Odoo community will take care of the Community > Odoo SA will obviously develop the base for Enterprise > while the Community will push the OCA alternative. > > Customer target might overlap but not necessarily. As > long as the core remains open, there is probably space for > both options. Odoo SA has actually much more to lose if > Enterprise fails. In this case (which I do not wish!), > anyway, the opencore will still survive if there is enough > community to sustain it. > > Overall, I see this move as additional offer to the > current options. It might widen the current market and in > extreme circumstances cannibalize the community one if it > generates enough value. > > We should not be scared of the competition but try to > beat it! > > If you think the community proposition is more > valuable, then hare and contribute, create merge > proposals, publish code and documentation ... within the > OCA umbrella or not :). > > > > 2015-05-09 12:02 GMT+08:00 OpenERP > Master < openerpmaster@gmail.com [2] > : > > > > Hello, > > > I think it is interesting to comment on > Magento, and then followup with a statement > about died open source projects. Magento has a > considerable market share of all websites in > the world, and their user base, developers, > etc far surpass Odoo by several times. Most > people in the ecommerce world know what > Magento is, while little people in the ERP > world know what Odoo is, to provide a basic > comparison. > > > Your statements about quality seem to directly > contradict the quality and execution that exist > in the code base today. My first thought about > this release was that Odoo was copying Magento's > business model. It also seems like Odoo takes a > lot after Magento, like the release of the > ecommerce module, then state that it is the > "best open source ecommerce solution" which is > obviously not true. (no offense), almost to > announce direct competition with Magento. > > > I am not surprised that this approach is being > taken, and its probably an inevitable path as a > project grows and matures. How it impacts the > community and the success of the software over > time remains to be seen. > > > I see two things happening. 1, if this model is > successful the core of the program will get a lot > better and there will actually be real standard > enterprise features. Or 2, the software is mainly > developed on the paid version, in which case the > software would eventually be abandoned for something > else. There's emerging competition out there.... > > > > On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 9:17 PM, Jeffery < jeffery9@gmail.com [3] > > wrote: > > > > should > we reference this model with redhat, like > this > > > odoo community == fedora (formly redhat linux) > odoo enterprise == redhat enterprise linux > odoo oca  == centos > > is this right? > > > > > > On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 9:02 AM, > Gunnar Wagner < gunnar.wagner@irisgermanica.com [4] > > wrote: > > > > > +1 .. but what > could be the consequences? > > I somewhat doubt that the S.A.'s > move is open for discussion. The > reason we (the company I am working > in) chose to go with OpenERP as our > ERP-system of choice was that it is > Open Source and mainly that we think > the community is strong (in terms of > technically capable AND powerful > enough to protect the Open Source > nature of the project). I strongly > hope that this will prove to be true > now. > > Even though I agree with what was > said by Houssine earlier (forking is > not an ideal scenario and it would > hurt the product Odoo) I think it > must be an option on the table. The > threat of a fork might be a sharp > argument to prevent this development > (which apart from S.A. apparently > nobody regards as bringing any good > to the product Odoo). Following this > discussion so far seems the > Community is strongly against > segregation. At the same time I am > not sure whether there is reason for > much confidence in the possibility > S.A. can be convinced with good > arguments to step back from their > plans. This does not look like a > rush move which eventually might be > taken back. > Taking these two points as a working > theory I think the Community needs > to take action. How about extending > support/development for OCB 8.0 as a > first step? > > > > > On 5/9/2015 3:36 AM, Raphaël > Valyi wrote: > >
cite="mid:CAByrsx3WmxhEdfwuXJj= > 6+HnD4h_hS-6L-haA-YphQTJT1avbA@mail.gmail.com [5] " > type="cite"> > > > > > > Hello, > > > much has been > said. However > something has > been missing I > think: it's > said that > Community en > Enterprise > versions are > not diverging. > Well let me > question it. > > > We should > remember that in > 2008, OpenERP SA > himself moved > the licensing > from GPL to > AGPL, thus > creating an > incentive to > create an AGPL > ecosystem. As a > results, dozens > of company and > hundreds of > developers > invested in > creating > hundreds of AGPL > modules, > including dozens > of localization > (as we did at > Akretion) and > this is pretty > much what makes > Odoo attractive > on several > verticals and > countries. All > that was also > enforcing a very > specific open > source business > model. > > > And with the > OCA skyrocketing > these days, > everyone can > easily verify > that this is a > sustainable > model that > produce high > quality modules > (better than the > core by many > metrics), > freedom/security > both for the > users and and > for the open > source editors. > > > Now, the non open > source modules ARE > NOT COMPATIBLE > with that existing > AGPL license!! > > > I remind you that > the OCA conducted a > juridic study to see > if it was possible > to change the AGPL > license of all these > modules, but a clear > NO was given as we > would never get the > agreement from all > the dozens of > contributors for > code contributed > even previously from > the OCA CLA > (Contributor License > Agreement). This > from a pure juridic > standpoint, I'm not > even talking if that > would be any > interesting move or > not (many think > there is much more > to loose than to win > with such a move, > both for the > customers who will > be trapped in closed > source code/freemium > and for system > integrators that > will be trapped in > dubious commercial > policies from the > closed source > editors). > > > And think about > the kind of > perversion of open > source values this > is: it would mean > that all the sudden, > the guys that were > violating the AGPL > license, that were > parasiting the > ecosystem by using > it without giving > anything back, would > suddenly be the good > guys with a cool > business model for > the VC's (cause > commission on it > with no control over > what it will be in > the future, think > Apple appstore). > While all the good > guys that made Odoo > what it is today by > enforcing the > copyleft licenses, > would have no legal > way to continue > there activities if > the non copyleft > side were to rise? > > > Come on, what > kind of community do > you think you would > build? Imagine a > country where you > would suddenly free > all prisoners who > violated the law and > put everybody else > in jail. Will that > build a better > world??? Let me > doubt. > > > So with Odoo SA > business relying on > the sale of non free > modules. It's quite > clear that there will > be a competition > between the free AGPL > ecosystem and the non > free modules, a > competition between > two different > antagonist visions. So > I don't see where is > the synergy here. > > > Also, if Odoo SA is > unable to work in > synergy with the > community anymore, how > would its business model > be any more optimized > than those inefficient > proprietary softwares > from the past models? > > > Open source works because > this is a shared work > where the cost is divided, > the bureaucracy for > collaboration is minimum > (but still what is > established in an open > source license should be > enforced and not > questioned every two years > in interference with > business models that > didn't apparently adhere > to the initial contract). > > > And note that I say that > while I'm really not an open > source ayatollah. I totally > understand that open source > is a low profit model that > eventually doesn't match the > Venture Capital expectations > (read the "there is no > hockey stick with open > source" post from the > Compiere ERP creator). So I > totally understand that Odoo > SA could have included non > open source products in its > offering. Now in my opinion > if it had non open source > products, it should NEVER > have been Odoo modules. It > could have been hosting > services or webservices of > any nature, or mobile > clients or whatever, but NOT > something that run inside > the same Odoo ERP process > that that forced to hurt the > licensing model upon which > that great ecosystem has > been built. Hopefully it's > still time to backpedal on > this to lower the obvious > value destruction associated > with such move. > > > My 2 cents. > > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 8, 2015 at > 3:18 PM, Mohammad Alhashash > < alhashash@alhashash.net [6] > > wrote: > > > > > I think the there is still some confusion about the structure of the > Enterprise edition. If it is "a set of modules on top of Odoo > Community", why bug fixes will be "forward ported to Odoo Enterprise"? > Does this mean that the community edition will act as the cutting-edge > edition of the stable enterprise version (like Fedora vs Redhat > Enterprise Linux)? > On 08/05/15 19:34, Fabien Pinckaers wrote: >> Dear community, >> >> I understand some of you may have joined Odoo, a few years ago, with >> another model in mind. That's not the open source model we initialy >> wanted and that's not the model we advertised you over the past 8 years. >> We even criticised the "open core" model most open source software are >> following [1] and we were very proud of being 100% open source by >> refusing partners to sell their Odoo modules. >> >> After having pushed this direction for 8 years, I now think I was wrong. >> This model worked, but we can do better. And we have to do it if we want >> to raise the bar and make Odoo the world's most used management >> software. Being closed to other model / contributors was a bad idea. >> People should be free to choose the model they want to finance their >> contributions. Since we launched the Odoo apps store, we received a lot >> of feedbacks and we are now convinced it was a very good move. >> >> So, >> - Do we plan to continue investing actively in Odoo community? Yes >> - Do we plan to sell more? Yes >> >> Is it bad for community members? no. Because both those objectives are >> mutually benefical to each others. As Antony explained, Odoo Community >> and Odoo Enterprise are not divergent products. We are designing both >> Github repositories so that Odoo Enterprise relies on Odoo Community. >> (or Odoo Community becomes the foundation of Odoo Enterprise). >> >> In terms of process, bugs will be fixed in Odoo Community and forward >> ported to Odoo Enterprise. Odoo Enterprise evolutions will contribute to >> Odoo Community as all the 280 core modules are in Odoo Community and >> every improvement on those modules will be on Odoo community (the >> current scope of version 8 will be in Odoo Community, we don't plan to >> reduce the scope of the community application) [2]. >> >> In that sense, it's more an OpenFullERP model than an OpenCore one. And >> that's what we want: >> - We want Odoo Community to be the best management software out there >> (not a secondary, unimportant product) >> - We want Odoo Enterprise to have extra features than Odoo Community to >> upsell some of our users >> >> Of course, some may get frustrated within the next months. Odoo >> Enterprise will have great new features that some may want to get for >> free. But please understand that 1/ its necessary to continue fueling >> the Odoo developments efforts like we are doing now and 2/ this does not >> change our active commitment to Odoo Community, the open source version. >> >> I also think that this increased value proposition will help us improve >> the business relationship with partners since we will no longer have to >> compete with partners on selling services. [3] Both roles are more clear >> with this model: Odoo SA's role is to build a great product, partners >> role is to offer services to customers. >> >> Since Odoo Enterprise is a set of modules on top of Odoo Community, both >> versions will be linked to each others. The success of one will bring >> success to the other too. (through bugfixes or new versions) >> >> Thanks, >> >> Fabien >> >> [1] A statement I wrote 3 years ago: >> https://www.odoo.com/fr_FR/blog/odoo-news-5/post/our-open-source-business-model-119 >> [7] >> >> [2] If, for technical reasons, we have to remove a module from Odoo >> community because it conflicts with a new Odoo Enterprise module, we >> will give a v9 version to the community or OCA so that you don't get >> less features with Odoo v9 (but much more since we will add a lot of >> great features in Odoo v9 community too) --> we already know that we >> will have to do this for account_followup that we plan to remove from >> Odoo Community (because it's not clean enough). So, we will contribute a >> working version for v9 to OCA modules. >> >> >> >> >> On 05/07/2015 05:34 PM, Stephen Mack wrote: >> > Any thought about being more descriptive with the naming to avoid >> confusion? >> > >> > If the Enterprise edition is simply a bundle of modules why make it >> > sound like the core is different. >> > >> > I fully support Odoo making paid modules but then why not name it >> > "Enterprise Feature Pack" or "Enterprise Add-on" or anything to signify >> > that the Odoo core is not involved. >> > >> > Odoo Community addition sounds like a stripped down, vanilla version of >> > Odoo Enterprise addition. >> > >> > I really want odoo to succeed but please don't add fuel to the fire. >> > Proudly present Odoo as a strong product and then confidently charge for >> > Enterprise Module Features. >> > >> > Just my two cents. I really don't want to be explaining the difference >> > of the two versions for years in the forums. >> > >> > Humbly, >> > >> > --Stephen >> > >> > On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Antony Lesuisse < al@openerp.com [8] >> > <mailto: al@openerp.com [9] >> wrote: >> > >> > With version 9, we will release 2 editions of odoo: Odoo >> Community and Odoo >> > Enterprise. >> > >> > Odoo Enterprise will consist of Odoo Community plus a set of >> enterprise only >> > features (or in technical term, an additional repository with >> extra modules). >> > >> > Some new features that have been under developement latetly will be in >> > enterprise such as electronic signature, integration with >> shipping providers. >> > For example the crm_voip module (currently published as a paid >> app on the app >> > store) will be in the enterprise repository. However core >> modules like the new >> > accounting remains in the Community version. >> > >> > Odoo community will be supported as much as Odoo enterprise, >> Odoo Community is >> > the foundation of Odoo Enterprise and it will remain free and >> open source as LGPL. >> > >> > For technical users, they can access the code through the same GitHub >> > repository. The community version 9 will be at odoo/odoo#9.0 and the >> > development branch is still at odoo/odoo#master. >> > >> > Odoo Enterprise users (and partners) will have access to the enterprise >> > repository containing only the additional modules. >> > >> > You might have wondered why odoo master has not been pushed for >> a few weeks. >> > The reason is that we had some feature branches with those >> extra modules, we >> > did not want to push the merged branches as LGPL. >> > >> > We are currently filtering the branch with git-filter-branch >> before we can >> > push it back to master. >> > >> > Antony. >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [10] >> > Post to: mailto: community@mail.odoo.com [11] > community@mail.odoo.com [12] > >> > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [13] >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [14] >> > Post to: mailto: community@mail.odoo.com [15] >> > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [16] >> > >> >> >> -- >> Fabien Pinckaers >> Odoo Founder >> >> Web: https://www.odoo.com [17] >> Twitter: @fpodoo >> >> Instant Demo: https://odoo.com/start/cms [18] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [19] >> Post to: mailto: community@mail.odoo.com [20] >> Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [21] >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [22] > Post to: mailto: community@mail.odoo.com [23] > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [24] > > > > > > > -- > > > Raphaël Valyi > Founder and consultant > http://twitter.com/rvalyi [25] > +55 > 21 3942-2434 > www.akretion.com [26] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [27] > Post to: mailto:community@mail.odoo.com [28] > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [29] > > > > -- > Gunnar Wagner | > Iris Germanica Ltd. | > JinQian Gong Lu 385, 8-201 > | FengXian Qu, 201404 > Shanghai | P.R. CHINA > +86 159 0094 1702 > | +49 > (0)176 7808 9090 [30] | > skype: professorgunrad | None [31] www.fashionsupermarket.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [32] > Post to: mailto: community@mail.odoo.com [33] > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [34] > > > > > > > > -- > Jeffery        -odoo expert form > kunshan, suzhou, china > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [35] > Post to: mailto: community@mail.odoo.com [36] > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [37] > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [38] > Post to: mailto: community@mail.odoo.com [39] > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [40] > > > > > > > > -- > > Eric CAUDAL > +86 186 21 36 16 70 > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [41] > Post to: mailto: community@mail.odoo.com [42] > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [43] > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 [44] > Post to: mailto:community@mail.odoo.com [45] > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe [46] > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > Post to: mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > > > > [1] mailto:caudaleric@gmail.com > [2] mailto:openerpmaster@gmail.com > [3] mailto:jeffery9@gmail.com > [4] mailto:gunnar.wagner@irisgermanica.com > [5] mailto:6%2BHnD4h_hS-6L-haA-YphQTJT1avbA@mail.gmail.com > [6] mailto:alhashash@alhashash.net > [7] > https://www.odoo.com/fr_FR/blog/odoo-news-5/post/our-open-source-business-model-119 > [8] mailto:al@openerp.com > [9] mailto:al@openerp.com > [10] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > [11] mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > [12] mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > [13] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > [14] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > [15] mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > [16] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > [17] https://www.odoo.com > [18] https://odoo.com/start/cms > [19] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > [20] mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > [21] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > [22] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > [23] mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > [24] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > [25] http://twitter.com/#%21/rvalyi > [26] http://www.akretion.com/ > [27] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > [28] mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > [29] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > [30] tel:%2B49 %280%29176 7808 9090 > [31] http://www.fashionsupermarket.net > [32] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > [33] mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > [34] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > [35] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > [36] mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > [37] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > [38] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > [39] mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > [40] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > [41] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > [42] mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > [43] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > [44] https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > [45] mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > [46] https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > > !DSPAM:1,554de0809556422519761! > ----- End message from peter@vitha.nl ----- -- Saludos, Ing. 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