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Re: Odoo v9 Community and Enterprise editions

by
OpenERP Master
- 05/09/2015 00:00:46
Hello,

I think it is interesting to comment on Magento, and then followup with a statement about died open source projects. Magento has a considerable market share of all websites in the world, and their user base, developers, etc far surpass Odoo by several times. Most people in the ecommerce world know what Magento is, while little people in the ERP world know what Odoo is, to provide a basic comparison.

Your statements about quality seem to directly contradict the quality and execution that exist in the code base today. My first thought about this release was that Odoo was copying Magento's business model. It also seems like Odoo takes a lot after Magento, like the release of the ecommerce module, then state that it is the "best open source ecommerce solution" which is obviously not true. (no offense), almost to announce direct competition with Magento.

I am not surprised that this approach is being taken, and its probably an inevitable path as a project grows and matures. How it impacts the community and the success of the software over time remains to be seen.

I see two things happening. 1, if this model is successful the core of the program will get a lot better and there will actually be real standard enterprise features. Or 2, the software is mainly developed on the paid version, in which case the software would eventually be abandoned for something else. There's emerging competition out there....

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 9:17 PM, Jeffery <jeffery9@gmail.com> wrote:
should we reference this model with redhat, like this

odoo community == fedora (formly redhat linux)
odoo enterprise == redhat enterprise linux
odoo oca  == centos  

is this right?

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Gunnar Wagner <gunnar.wagner@irisgermanica.com> wrote:
+1 .. but what could be the consequences?

I somewhat doubt that the S.A.'s move is open for discussion.
The reason we (the company I am working in) chose to go with OpenERP as our ERP-system of choice was that it is Open Source and mainly that we think the community is strong (in terms of technically capable AND powerful enough to protect the Open Source nature of the project). I strongly hope that this will prove to be true now.

Even though I agree with what was said by Houssine earlier (forking is not an ideal scenario and it would hurt the product Odoo) I think it must be an option on the table. The threat of a fork might be a sharp argument to prevent this development (which apart from S.A. apparently nobody regards as bringing any good to the product Odoo). Following this discussion so far seems the Community is strongly against segregation. At the same time I am not sure whether there is reason for much confidence in the possibility S.A. can be convinced with good arguments to step back from their plans. This does not look like a rush move which eventually might be taken back.
Taking these two points as a working theory I think the Community needs to take action. How about extending support/development for OCB 8.0 as a first step?




On 5/9/2015 3:36 AM, Raphaël Valyi wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:CAByrsx3WmxhEdfwuXJj=6+HnD4h_hS-6L-haA-YphQTJT1avbA@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
Hello,

much has been said. However something has been missing I think: it's said that Community en Enterprise versions are not diverging. Well let me question it.

We should remember that in 2008, OpenERP SA himself moved the licensing from GPL to AGPL, thus creating an incentive to create an AGPL ecosystem. As a results, dozens of company and hundreds of developers invested in creating hundreds of AGPL modules, including dozens of localization (as we did at Akretion) and this is pretty much what makes Odoo attractive on several verticals and countries. All that was also enforcing a very specific open source business model.

And with the OCA skyrocketing these days, everyone can easily verify that this is a sustainable model that produce high quality modules (better than the core by many metrics), freedom/security both for the users and and for the open source editors.

Now, the non open source modules ARE NOT COMPATIBLE with that existing AGPL license!!

I remind you that the OCA conducted a juridic study to see if it was possible to change the AGPL license of all these modules, but a clear NO was given as we would never get the agreement from all the dozens of contributors for code contributed even previously from the OCA CLA (Contributor License Agreement). This from a pure juridic standpoint, I'm not even talking if that would be any interesting move or not (many think there is much more to loose than to win with such a move, both for the customers who will be trapped in closed source code/freemium and for system integrators that will be trapped in dubious commercial policies from the closed source editors).

And think about the kind of perversion of open source values this is: it would mean that all the sudden, the guys that were violating the AGPL license, that were parasiting the ecosystem by using it without giving anything back, would suddenly be the good guys with a cool business model for the VC's (cause commission on it with no control over what it will be in the future, think Apple appstore). While all the good guys that made Odoo what it is today by enforcing the copyleft licenses, would have no legal way to continue there activities if the non copyleft side were to rise?

Come on, what kind of community do you think you would build? Imagine a country where you would suddenly free all prisoners who violated the law and put everybody else in jail. Will that build a better world??? Let me doubt.

So with Odoo SA business relying on the sale of non free modules. It's quite clear that there will be a competition between the free AGPL ecosystem and the non free modules, a competition between two different antagonist visions. So I don't see where is the synergy here.

Also, if Odoo SA is unable to work in synergy with the  community anymore, how would its business model be any more optimized than those inefficient proprietary softwares from the past models?

Open source works because this is a shared work where the cost is divided, the bureaucracy for collaboration is minimum (but still what is established in an open source license should be enforced and not questioned every two years in interference with business models that didn't apparently adhere to the initial contract).

And note that I say that while I'm really not an open source ayatollah. I totally understand that open source is a low profit model that eventually doesn't match the Venture Capital expectations (read the "there is no hockey stick with open source" post from the Compiere ERP creator). So I totally understand that Odoo SA could have included non open source products in its offering. Now in my opinion if it had non open source products, it should NEVER have been Odoo modules. It could have been hosting services or webservices of any nature, or mobile clients or whatever, but NOT something that run inside the same Odoo ERP process that that forced to hurt the licensing model upon which that great ecosystem has been built. Hopefully it's still time to backpedal on this to lower the obvious value destruction associated with such move.

My 2 cents.

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Mohammad Alhashash <alhashash@alhashash.net> wrote:
I think the there is still some confusion about the structure of the Enterprise edition. If it is "a set of modules on top of Odoo Community", why bug fixes will be "forward ported to Odoo Enterprise"? Does this mean that the community edition will act as the cutting-edge edition of the stable enterprise version (like Fedora vs Redhat Enterprise Linux)? On 08/05/15 19:34, Fabien Pinckaers wrote: > Dear community, > > I understand some of you may have joined Odoo, a few years ago, with > another model in mind. That's not the open source model we initialy > wanted and that's not the model we advertised you over the past 8 years. > We even criticised the "open core" model most open source software are > following [1] and we were very proud of being 100% open source by > refusing partners to sell their Odoo modules. > > After having pushed this direction for 8 years, I now think I was wrong. > This model worked, but we can do better. And we have to do it if we want > to raise the bar and make Odoo the world's most used management > software. Being closed to other model / contributors was a bad idea. > People should be free to choose the model they want to finance their > contributions. Since we launched the Odoo apps store, we received a lot > of feedbacks and we are now convinced it was a very good move. > > So, > - Do we plan to continue investing actively in Odoo community? Yes > - Do we plan to sell more? Yes > > Is it bad for community members? no. Because both those objectives are > mutually benefical to each others. As Antony explained, Odoo Community > and Odoo Enterprise are not divergent products. We are designing both > Github repositories so that Odoo Enterprise relies on Odoo Community. > (or Odoo Community becomes the foundation of Odoo Enterprise). > > In terms of process, bugs will be fixed in Odoo Community and forward > ported to Odoo Enterprise. Odoo Enterprise evolutions will contribute to > Odoo Community as all the 280 core modules are in Odoo Community and > every improvement on those modules will be on Odoo community (the > current scope of version 8 will be in Odoo Community, we don't plan to > reduce the scope of the community application) [2]. > > In that sense, it's more an OpenFullERP model than an OpenCore one. And > that's what we want: > - We want Odoo Community to be the best management software out there > (not a secondary, unimportant product) > - We want Odoo Enterprise to have extra features than Odoo Community to > upsell some of our users > > Of course, some may get frustrated within the next months. Odoo > Enterprise will have great new features that some may want to get for > free. But please understand that 1/ its necessary to continue fueling > the Odoo developments efforts like we are doing now and 2/ this does not > change our active commitment to Odoo Community, the open source version. > > I also think that this increased value proposition will help us improve > the business relationship with partners since we will no longer have to > compete with partners on selling services. [3] Both roles are more clear > with this model: Odoo SA's role is to build a great product, partners > role is to offer services to customers. > > Since Odoo Enterprise is a set of modules on top of Odoo Community, both > versions will be linked to each others. The success of one will bring > success to the other too. (through bugfixes or new versions) > > Thanks, > > Fabien > > [1] A statement I wrote 3 years ago: > https://www.odoo.com/fr_FR/blog/odoo-news-5/post/our-open-source-business-model-119
> > [2] If, for technical reasons, we have to remove a module from Odoo > community because it conflicts with a new Odoo Enterprise module, we > will give a v9 version to the community or OCA so that you don't get > less features with Odoo v9 (but much more since we will add a lot of > great features in Odoo v9 community too) --> we already know that we > will have to do this for account_followup that we plan to remove from > Odoo Community (because it's not clean enough). So, we will contribute a > working version for v9 to OCA modules. > > > > > On 05/07/2015 05:34 PM, Stephen Mack wrote: > > Any thought about being more descriptive with the naming to avoid confusion? > > > > If the Enterprise edition is simply a bundle of modules why make it > > sound like the core is different. > > > > I fully support Odoo making paid modules but then why not name it > > "Enterprise Feature Pack" or "Enterprise Add-on" or anything to signify > > that the Odoo core is not involved. > > > > Odoo Community addition sounds like a stripped down, vanilla version of > > Odoo Enterprise addition. > > > > I really want odoo to succeed but please don't add fuel to the fire. > > Proudly present Odoo as a strong product and then confidently charge for > > Enterprise Module Features. > > > > Just my two cents. I really don't want to be explaining the difference > > of the two versions for years in the forums. > > > > Humbly, > > > > --Stephen > > > > On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Antony Lesuisse <al@openerp.com > > <mailto:al@openerp.com
>> wrote: > > > > With version 9, we will release 2 editions of odoo: Odoo Community and Odoo > > Enterprise. > > > > Odoo Enterprise will consist of Odoo Community plus a set of enterprise only > > features (or in technical term, an additional repository with extra modules). > > > > Some new features that have been under developement latetly will be in > > enterprise such as electronic signature, integration with shipping providers. > > For example the crm_voip module (currently published as a paid app on the app > > store) will be in the enterprise repository. However core modules like the new > > accounting remains in the Community version. > > > > Odoo community will be supported as much as Odoo enterprise, Odoo Community is > > the foundation of Odoo Enterprise and it will remain free and open source as LGPL. > > > > For technical users, they can access the code through the same GitHub > > repository. The community version 9 will be at odoo/odoo#9.0 and the > > development branch is still at odoo/odoo#master. > > > > Odoo Enterprise users (and partners) will have access to the enterprise > > repository containing only the additional modules. > > > > You might have wondered why odoo master has not been pushed for a few weeks. > > The reason is that we had some feature branches with those extra modules, we > > did not want to push the merged branches as LGPL. > > > > We are currently filtering the branch with git-filter-branch before we can > > push it back to master. > > > > Antony. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59
> > Post to: mailto:community@mail.odoo.com <mailto:community@mail.odoo.com> > > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > > Post to: mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe > > > > > -- > Fabien Pinckaers > Odoo Founder > > Web: https://www.odoo.com > Twitter: @fpodoo > > Instant Demo: https://odoo.com/start/cms > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing-List: https://www.odoo.com/groups/community-59 > Post to: mailto:community@mail.odoo.com > Unsubscribe: https://www.odoo.com/groups?unsubscribe >

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