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Fabien Pinckaers (fp)

--Fabien Pinckaers (fp)--
| 6 8 8
fsdsdfsdf, Belgium
--Fabien Pinckaers (fp)--

Odoo Founder & CEO

Fabien Pinckaers (fp)
7/17/13, 6:01 PM

Why did not we answer?

Over the past years, a small group of 5 companies (all from the Tryton community) used to influence perception on OpenERP by disseminating negative and dubious or false information. They have tried to grow frustrations on OpenERP for their own interests. All the big FUD you will find on the web come from the same guys, e.g.. OpenERP is not open source, OpenERP only think about marketing, OpenERP does not work for...

We do not want to enter in such a flame war, so we used to ignore them. You can not have a real discussion with such people whose sole intention is to bash OpenERP. Every attempt to answer them would just be:

  1. an opportunity for them to re-answer and bash even more
  2. an opportunity for them to get more visibility.

About the Sorry OpenERP campaign

The SorryOpenERP campaign is not a result of the community as claimed. It's the initiative of one company; Openlabs. They used to launch big FUD on OpenERP. The author of the website is Sharoon Thomas, the CEO of Openlabs as well as 2 other employees of Openlabs: https://github.com/sorryopenerp/sorryopenerp.github.io/graphs/contributors

Get the Facts

OpenERP is not perfect and has several weaknesses we work on. But it's by far the best open source management software in the world; technically and functionally. You can compare with other open source players; http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=openerp%2Copenbravo%2Ccompiere%2Cxtuple#q=openerp%2C%20openbravo%2C%20compiere%2C%20xtuple&cmpt=q

Here are some facts about their statements; (I just quoted the title of their sections)

100% Open Source (That’s a Joke)

OpenERP is fully open source (and will always stay), just check our AGPL licence. We have always been clear about our open source commitment. http://bit.ly/openmodel

They quoted one of my tweet in 2010 "OpenERP will always remain AGPL." with the following quiz "Why did the CEO of OpenERP delete this tweet?" They proposed the following options 1/ He lied. 2/ He was scared. 3/ Hypocrisy.

I have to say I don't remember why I deleted this tweet (probably because I posted twice the same tweet and deleted one). But for sure, OpenERP is still AGPL.

Hated by millions worldwide

The most hated products are also the most famous ones, just because their audience is larger. (Apple, Microsoft, ...) So, I guess they are probably people that do not like OpenERP; but I am amazed every day how people like OpenERP so much.

Note that they quoted people that like OpenERP (they took the tweet out of their context)

The overall satisfaction of OpenERP users and customers is very high compare to industry standards; we have a churn <15% on our customers which means that a customers stays on average 6.5 years on OpenERP. And I am pretty sure this will increase even more with v7.

We are the most used open source management software (>1M users); you can not get such KPI without a great product and service.

OpenERP’s thousand plus applications exist along with equivalent or more number of bugs. With consistent complaints about the functioning of OpenERP and the creators trying to cover the existing problems with novel features, this software is a repository of flaws.

Our OpenERP Enterprise service includes an unlimited bugfix guarantee. In other words, we fix all bugs reported by customers at no extra costs. Bugs reported are closed in an average of 5 open days. We think we can do better but it's already good (try to submit a bug to SAP or Ms. Dynamics).

This is a good proof that:

  • We are confident in the quality of the software
  • If there are too much bugs, it costs us more money, not to the customer

All fixes are ported in the stable branches so that every one can benefit from it.

their corrupted business model.; The more apps you install, the more your process becomes complicated with increase in maintenance costs.

Our OpenERP Enterprise maintenance offer is a fixed price (35 EUR/user/month) independant from the number of applications our customers install. As an opposite to all others software, with OpenERP, you don't have to pay more in the maintenance contract if you install more apps.

We also do our best to improve OpenERP to make it easier versions after versions. Just check the difference between version 6.1 and version 7 on http://runbot.openerp.com

Only 15 days are free of cost You will end up paying maintenance costs forever

OpenERP is fully open source. You can download it for free and use it unlimitedly without being forced to buy anything at any time.

The 15 days free trial they are talking about is just for the cloud offer; if you want OpenERP SA to host and maintain the software for you.

We also have a maintenance service offer where we can guarantee unlimited bugfixes and migration at a fix price. It's not mandatory, but it's a great service; OpenERP is the only publisher in the world that allows customers to upgrade at no extra costs as part as their maintenance contract.

You can not imagine how much SAP or Ms. Dynamics customers I saw that were stuck in old versions of the software and for whom the upgrade is as expensive as a full implementation. We do not want OpenERP customers to be in this situation. We are convinced that it's great for customers to evolve with the software, that's why we launched this service offer.

Memory and CPU Leaks OpenERP is incapable of running large applications as their ORM is ineffective

A few facts;

  • Every OpenERP cloud server has 1000 instances running in parallel; we never had to restart one of these for CPU or memory leaks. (we had some issues related to memory leaks in v6.0 but it's fixed since 2 years)
  • My father stopped his auction house business 2 weeks ago. I stopped his OpenERP server that has been running without interruption since 7 years. (one of the oldest OpenERP user)

OpenERP can be a roadblock in the growth of your business as it is incompetent of handling large data applications, so if you are dreaming of increasing your business with OpenERP, you can kiss goodbye to that dream

  • The biggest OpenERP instance has 300.000 users

Only a very few software in the world can scale like this. Here is their success story: https://docs.google.com/a/openerp.com/file/d/0B5BDHVRYo-q5WGk4NHVCY1NOVlU/edit

Only one module out of the 250 official modules needs improvement for performances on high volumes, it's the stock one. We are rewriting it from scratch in order to fix this for version 8. More information here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jTLZJNV14saRn1VeZt_wME18YizEnEHB9ZX97WSqavs/edit?usp=sharing

Insecure by Design OpenERP uses clear text method to store passwords

The default communication protocol depends on how you configured the web server (apache or ngnix). On all our installation, we use https, even on our website; https://openerp.com So, communication are all crypted by default.

The default password method for our online offer is OAuth. (over https) --> secure and crypted

For on premise installations (if you download yourself), we do:

  • OAuth by default for portal users
  • Clear password for employees but you can just activate others methods in one click; LDAP, Crypted password

Community Driven Development (My Ass!)

They used slides from Raphaël Valyi, explaining the new data model for contacts/companies in version 7 is wrong. Some community members did not understand the change we did when we launched version 7 (probably due to a lack of communication from our side). It was a huge community discussion a few months ago.


  • everyone agrees that the model we did is the right one
  • even the author of these slides changed his mind and abandoned his branch to use our model

The quest for wealth has been the downfall of many empires and it seems that OpenERP is pacing towards its end. By charging for migration between two versions and high-cost customisations, it is clear that the creators of OpenERP are only looking to fill their coffers and not provide value. Perhaps, they have forgotten the first rule of business, ‘Customer always comes first’ or they could be blinded by the sight of Benjamins.

We, OpenERP SA, do not charge services to develop customizations. We do not have such an offer; it's not part of our core business model. Developing custom modules is usually done by partners and partners charge the price they want for this service. (we take no commission on such a service) The customer is free to choose the partner that better suits his need. So, it's fair for every one.

We do have a service to upgrade, it's OpenERP Enterprise; https://www.openerp.com/pricing Having a service offer to allow customers to upgrade their application at very low prices his actually a great offer for customers. It's just a great service offer, not a constraint; nothing forces users to purchase our services.

The leaders of OpenERP stated the company was open to an acquisition and since then their mission has been aligned to the intention of being bought by companies positioned in the leaders quadrant.

I am the main shareholder of OpenERP (>70% of the shares). And I always stated the opposite.

Their efforts show that they are aimed at driving up the stock value of the company so that they entice a major company for a takeover. The hype around the lunch module is a clear depiction of the moron driven development.

We use OpenERP to manage our company. That's why we developed the lunch module; we just needed such a module for ourself.

its creators are trying to hide the imperfections under their grandeur marketing campaign

We actually have nearly no marketing investment on OpenERP. OpenERP SA's turnover is $10m and the marketing budget is 100k$ per year. (1%, which is way bellow industry standards) This barely covers the cost of events (like the community meeting) and limited efforts in communication like our news.

Marketing is actually the biggest weakness of OpenERP and we will invest in this area in the future in order to grow the OpenERP business.

Collecting critical information without permission

OpenERP has an alert mechanism to retrieve security updates and alerts for end-users. We use this for two reasons:

1/ Get security alerts in order to show possible updates to the admin user. 2/ Check number of users according to OpenERP Enterprise contracts

Nearly all high-end open source software have such a mechanism:

It's very important for every software publisher to know its number of active users and have a system to warn users in case of security fixes available through an update.

No sensitive/critical information are sent to OpenERP, everything remains anonymous. The only information are the version, the number of users, the contract version if any, and the database ID. There are no information related to the company, the users, the employees, the invoice, or anything else.

One can easily desactivate this by unactivating the related cron. (just one checkbox)

In the future, we would like to use this to publish real time statistics like wordpress do. It's important that the OpenERP community can track the progress of OpenERP. (two information only: number of instances in production, number of users)

How will we react

Such a campaign to bash OpenERP is just pitiful and, usually, I prefer not to waste too much time on such flames. But we got several requests from partners and users to take action.

So, we will take legal action against Openlabs to protect the reputation of our developers, our community and the business of our partners.

7/17/13, 6:12 PM

Thanks for this, it was what I was waiting to reaffirm my commitment with OpenERP and keep developing with it.

7/18/13, 7:30 AM

Every developer who has worked with OpenERP for sometime knows that several of the issues mentioned on http://sorryopenerp.com are true. Why deny them instead of addressing those issues and fixing them ?

7/18/13, 10:37 AM

Everything need time and money , raphael can you please fund few 1000 dollors to me or openerp SA ti fix them and then you can use the best product ever .. just think about it you will get all your answers . Satyamitra - Openerp4you

Poiesis Consulting, Nico Bustillos
7/18/13, 12:01 PM

Great intervention Fabien. We are with you and we believe all this problems can be solved (hell, we have the source code, we can solve them ourselves). As for the reaction itself, it would be honorable if something positive came out of this whole mess, in parallel with those legal actions. The coming Stock refactoring is a good example of great value as perceived by the community and their expectations. Hopefully we will see more of that.

Fabien Pinckaers (fp)
7/18/13, 2:25 PM

Raphael, that's exactly what we do; check our new API refactoring, new web client, new WMS module, etc. We are working hard to improve OpenERP. What I meant is; for sure OpenERP has weaknesses. But if you compare with others soft, you will find that what we did is exceptionnal. People always think the grass is more green in other's gardens...

Serpent Consulting Services Pvt. Ltd., Serpent Consulting Services Pvt. Ltd.
7/18/13, 7:40 PM

No doubt why Fabien Pinckaers is Fabien Pinckaers ! Every CEO/product owner should learn from him! Your critics is your best teacher ! Funny thing : One learns, works and earns from OpenERP...and spends time to go against! The same time could have been spent on innovations! I am going to Add few things here on http://www.serpentcs.com/serpentcs-know-fabien-pinckaers-ceo-of-openerp-sa with the lessons to learn from him!

7/19/13, 9:42 AM

Thank you for your reaction Fabien. It has been comforting to us and we will keep using OpenERP with great confidence about it's future development. Paulo Buijs / Alpha Up

Laura Jarvenpaa
7/31/13, 3:06 AM

Where is this check box to deactivate data collection of openERP? I made a separate question about this but no one is answering so decided to ask this here because at least here is someone who knows the answer...

Landis Arnold
3/14/15, 3:56 PM

Does the new Licensing proposed for version 9.0 stop the "Open Source" nature. Seems it is "open to purchasers".. something of the sort was stated in the announcement this week. I don't know the real diff in the licenses though. Looking for explanation.


Serpent Consulting Services Pvt. Ltd.

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Serpent Consulting Services Pvt. Ltd.
7/18/13, 7:42 PM

No doubt why Fabien Pinckaers is Fabien Pinckaers ! Every CEO/product owner should learn from him! You critics is your best teacher ! Funny thing : One learns, works and earns from OpenERP...and spends time to go against! The same time could have been spent on innovations! I am going to Add few things here on http://www.serpentcs.com/serpentcs-know-fabien-pinckaers-ceo-of-openerp-sa with the lessons to learn from him!

7/18/13, 9:30 AM

Dear all there are several companies who aims at getting more visibility and customers through negative campaigns, and talking nonsense about others , i must say its cheap they first talk about being ethical and professional and then they are the first one to have the knife in their hand and kill their best friend called professionalism .

Openerp is a wonderful product and we really love it , At Openerp4you we have proved it that OpenERP is even Successful where Oracle and Microsoft Failed Previously , you can ask me to visit the customers if you doubt it.

Nobody is perfect except GOD, why you try to pic words from Fabian with some proof and example something nonsense like

" Fabian said he will go to pee.. at 2:30 pm but he did it at 2:15 he is a big lie and cheat bla bla " Growup guys .. ""

Fabian is a human like we all are and we learn by mistakes, what is important is a good intention and any body working with OpenERP know that their intentions were never bad . They just aimed to grow and improve the product and to grow and improve you need to change the strategy because you have learned from past experience.

One more thing since you are trying to preach lot about tryton I must tell you . i personally have tried installing Tryton 25 times and scraped it 26 times because its ugly and my customers hated it when i show them OpenERP.

so guys thier is a statement in hindi

" Khudi ko kar buland itna ki khuda bandey sey khud phuchey bata teri raja kya hai "

Means First make yourself so perfect that even god will come and ask you what do you want more ,

Develop something with all your logics and rules so that even we should try to use your product than openerp may be with a beautiful web-client mobile client . android and iphone apps , e comerce platform also all industrial verticals covered like sap and 100% free .

There is lot others to compete world is very big . Looking forward for a better walk ahead

Satyamitra Maan CEO - OpenERP4you www.openerp4you.in

Fabien Pinckaers (fp)
7/18/13, 2:54 PM

We removed the post from Edward, Satyamitra is talking about, as it was a false account created by Openlabs (false email and IP from Delhi, India :)

Travelping GmbH, Holger Winkelmann
7/19/13, 1:12 PM

you removed my comments as well, dont really which censorship is going on here. @Fabien, we are just a software company trying to use openerp an ready to pay of support. my post wars mostly about the problem not finding either a local partner (Germany wide would be OK) or the right contact in OpenERP SA able to discuss the need behound the point of a sales call center.

Removing this post, also removed karma which limits me helping other user by answering questions. I don't really know how much effort i should spend anymore. I also dont like the behavior of silently deleting comments.

Fabien Pinckaers (fp)
7/29/13, 4:14 AM

Holger, you can get the list of german partners on our website: https://www.openerp.com/partners/directory/DE/Germany To contact OpenERP SA directly, go there: https://www.openerp.com/contact

Travelping GmbH, Holger Winkelmann
7/29/13, 7:15 AM

Hi Fabien, we are aware of the list, and tried to contact nearly all of them, but never got a feedback or callback. Nothing you can change I Know. Regarding the contact to OpenERP SA we have tried this, but beside sales calls we never got a real answer to our questions which are articulated by Email and on the phone a number of times. we are looking to integrate the OpenERP functionality into systems for Service Provider (Telcos, ISPs) up to now I have not heard anything back apart from call center try to sell me a OpenERP license. I would appreciate a contact given for this kind of discussion

7/18/13, 12:01 AM

Well said Fabien Pinckaers....... I was bit upset after reading the sorryopenerp.com website but I was almost sure It was handiwork of some wicked mind people with malign intend. Anyway happy that Fabien Pinckaers himself took things in his hands to clear the clouds. OpenERP is really a great product and we believe It'll replace SAP to become the no. 1 ERP in the world one day. We are investing whole our effort and time in OpenERP and running a company based on this belief. Long way to go Fabien Pinckaers....we are with you.

Thierry Godin
7/17/13, 8:09 PM

Well said Mr Pickaers. I think that OpenERP is a wonderful software. You all made a great job .

We just need more documentation and a real forum app to find help from the community. (Actually, your suport plateform is boring and not very useful. )

Keep the good work.

Nicholas Linn
7/3/13, 3:34 PM

Seems like this is a site by Openlabs Technologies & Consulting (1) which seems to be born out of focusing on Tryton. I can understand openERP not working for everyone, and reading the site there are some valid points there is also a great deal of the issues that seem blown way out of proportion or only effected certain business models or situations.

Personally stuff like this seems to show a severe lack of ethics and class for the company that put up that site. It's one thing to raise concerns, issues or foster discussion but to create a website who's sole purpose is the bash a product seems extremely childish.

Seems like a pretty silly thing to "react" to.

  1. http://www.who.is/domain-history/sorryopenerp.com
7/5/13, 10:23 AM

My personal opinion is that most of the points on the site are true, which is obviously very concerning, you won't get a response from openerp about it, and there is no real answer for this question then. This is my personal opinion.

1 Comment
7/5/13, 11:28 AM

From the POV of somebody developing on OpenERP as a platform I can understand criticism regarding defects and quality. I see design flaws in the architecture patched together with hacks but honestly I don't remember seeing any software that doesn't end-up this way due to cost cutting, scope-creep and rushed deadlines over time. OpenERP isn't unique for this by far. As my grandfather was keen on saying, what do you want for nothing? for your money you still get a mostly usable and fairly reliable suite of useful tools.


It is important on how we respond to criticism and what a great response, Fabien ,

OpenERP is always free as a software but services that all of us contributing is not free , how many people , SME , developers (including those that not working in openERP) has been benefited in terms of knowledge ,in terms of improving their business processes and also in terms of making a living out of it , well , I am one of those that has been benefited and the least thing that i can do is to bash openERP , which until now , openERP still stay close to my heart , one of the best framework around and keep evolving ! Bravo !

There is nothing to worry about if your hold the secret power of openERP , http://blog.instant-erp.com/2013/07/the-secret-power-of-openerp.html !

I hope we all can work together so that we can realize that open source project can revolutionize the whole software services industries ! So that everyone can benefit from any good software services to improve life !

Ralph LAvaud
7/5/13, 11:35 AM

A couple of points to keep in mind guys. The openlabs folks put out a statement stating that the sorryopenerp campaign is not their official position but the site was created by some of their employees (I still find this odd). 2 Openerp is open source which means sometime you have to get your hands dirty and tinker with it. I tried both tryton and openerp (openbravo as well) while evaluating a solution for my business. Each app has their own issues and pick the one which works for you. My experience with OpenErp is not perfect, heck some things makes no sense at all but I can make a change myself or pay for it if it's that big a deal. AlphaUp are you affected by these issues mentioned on the site?


Grover Hernando Menacho Quisbert

--Grover Hernando Menacho Quisbert--
WebVision Enterprise Systems
| 6 8 8
La Paz, Bolivia
--Grover Hernando Menacho Quisbert--

Odoo Developer

Grover Hernando Menacho Quisbert
7/17/13, 4:58 PM

As I said before... Every system has pro and cons, but we're here to improve it and make it better. If we start looking errors on a system i'm sure that we can find a lot.

I am talking as a developer, i'm not sure about OpenERP support or other services.

Nhomar Hernandez
7/2/16, 1:42 AM

Even if I am with Fabien as usual, there are some statements that today needs to be reviewed (for good) to adjust to the new odoo's model.

7/19/13, 9:47 AM

Well said, Fabien I was bit worried about their campaign to demote OpenERP

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